Delta runway incursion JFK
01-11-2020, 03:21 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
Although you did say "technique" some pilots are under the impression that controllers HAVE to correct incorrect readbacks. Unfortunately that is not the case.
When in doubt always ask.
When in doubt always ask.
I just don't think her technique should have involved an admin discussion in the middle of a RWY cross or hold-short clearance. We ARE required to readback hold shorts, and she should have let them do it IMO.
01-11-2020, 04:38 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
Don’t have a chart in front of me right now. I know they have ASDX at JFK. Do they not have status lights at that intersection? Red lights could have prevented this.
01-11-2020, 04:41 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by PotatoChip
They do. They come on whenever an aircraft is cleared for takeoff or on less than a mile approach (i think, something close to that).
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01-11-2020, 04:51 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
Then either the crossing aircraft missed the lights or the departing aircraft did.
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Either way, pretty egregious lack of awareness. They may have been pretty tired, who knows. Just a reminder that runway crossings are important.
01-11-2020, 07:02 PM
#27
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This might not be popular, and yes personal responsibility, but I think at class airports that land the outters depart the inners, the general standard design needs to be changed to be like the victor loop in ATL. This will happen again and again. Cyyz is an obvious design issue as it is an outlier.
01-11-2020, 07:07 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
I never do that until across all runways and the taxi plan is settled and in motion. I've pulled into the wrong gate because of it, but better that than crossing the wrong runway.
01-11-2020, 07:24 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by Cosa Nostra
Plenty of ways to mitigate, I just say I got number one while you call ops. Never seems to fail.
CA's are pretty good at hearing and complying with taxi instructions. Not necessarily practiced at hearing, reading back, writing down, and then complying.
Never again. Ops can wait until all the dust settles. Or the brake is set at the gate, whichever comes first. There's a reason we communicate with ops before starting descent.
01-11-2020, 08:56 PM
#30
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Delta runway incursion JFK
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
Although you did say "technique" some pilots are under the impression that controllers HAVE to correct incorrect readbacks. Unfortunately that is not the case.
When in doubt always ask.
When in doubt always ask.
Controllers are required to request read back of hold short instructions (and correct readbacks, reference 2-4-3) when it is not received.
FAA Order 7110.65y Air Traffic Control
3-7-2 h.
Request a read back of runway hold short instructions when it is not received from the pilot/vehicle operator.
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...section_7.html
This has been the case for over 20 years now. Hopefully the controller also filed an ATSAP.
As far as prevention, it might help if we had something like this in the flight deck:
http://www.airportviewer.com/airport/KJFK
Last edited by FXLAX; 01-11-2020 at 09:29 PM.
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