NotMrNiceGuy

I’m aware of at least one SWA ExTO Captain that was hired at FDX in early 2021 that already has a CA 757 award.

rickair7777

That's a sticky question. Hopefully everybody's CBA language is tight enough that nobody will have their schedule adjusted out of seniority, ie the company should eat it or the Oldie eats it. Maybe the Oldie gets a chance to trade out and failing that a reserve flies it and the Oldie sits reserve?

This is similar to people who can't fly to Canada because of a DUI, some airlines will accommodate that... you bid-avoid, then try to trade out and if you can't then they swap you with a reserve.

Those with contracts open should maybe start thinking about that. Most companies can re-flow you during a trip due to IROPs, but having somebody who's illegal to fly a trip awarded it six weeks out should not constitute an IROP. This is actually easy to avoid in PBS... oldies simply can't be awarded international trips. Line bidding is a little harder... depending on the prevalence of international ops they might have to concentrate those in fewer lines to create enough domestic-only lines. This is another example of why tight union control of PBS parameters is important... don't want PBS going back up the list and taking pairings away from senior pilots because an Oldie's not legal for Edmonton.

Or pure seniority solution: if an Oldie can't bid trips/lines he's legal for then he gets reserve. Could a reserve then get called out of seniority to cover a trip? Sure, but that happens all the time anyway, most companies try to load balance reserves so if the junior has 70 hours and the senior has 10 for the month, guess who's getting called?

I think this would have negligible impact on others as long as the fleet in question is mostly domestic. So airlines would have to draw the line as to which fleets Oldies are even eligible for. It's possible that an airline could simply refuse to employ an Oldie if they don't have any pure domestic fleets.

We have a pretty solid precedent in this industry regarding seniority... companies generally can't violate it to accommodate religion, motherhood, etc. Even though people have in the past tried to claim such accommodation.This should be no different.

SDFcardinals

If you can financially retire tomorrow, why does having a younger wife who wants to work into her 60's, play into your decision on when YOU retire? I'm not being snarky, just genuinely curious. I'm 5 years older than my wife, and if she wants to continue to work after I'm ready to retire, then more power to her, but I'm punching out on my time frame, and she understands that. I am just the type of person that couldn't imagine working one day longer after hitting "my number" and I love my job.

dualinput

I do blame congress. That’s why I said to entertain an age increase then all the regional pilots need to be on the mainline seniority list and contract otherwise it isn’t about a pilot shortage it’s about keeping costs artificially low.

ALSO anyone over the age of 65 needs to be placed at the bottom of the seniority list with their longevity intact and pay at the highest category they were able to hold at age 65. This way the airlines get their pilots and the rest of us aren’t hurt seniority wise and the old guys keep the money coming in. Sure the 65+ QOL will go down being at the bottom and flying an RJ but they were planning to be retired anyway so it’s all just gravy for them. Also, their experience could be useful on that type of flying bc right now we have two inexperienced pilots trying to get out as soon as possible bc of the pilot cast system of regional vs mainline.

rickair7777

Neither the company nor the union can do that unilaterally. Even if they agree to do it, it would almost certainly get tossed by the courts as age discrimination. Not going to happen.

Even a CBA can't take away someone's seniority just because they reached a certain age. If they're legal to be employed, and already on the list, they're going to keep their seniority. How much schedule accommodation they get is another story.

Be Realistic

While seniority is heavily favored in the USA, a company contract cannot over ride federal law, surely? If they are in conflict the law should trump the contract. Certainly a contract cannot take front seat to a sovereign states law such as where age prohibits the operation. If a country prohibits over 65, then a pilot over 65 should simply be excluded from bidding on such a trip without penalty for the company. A senior A320 pilot cannot bid for a B777 trip if he hasn't been awarded the fleet type. International routes should be the same way.

dualinput

It certainly can take away their seniority if they were supposed to retire. Anything after 65 is a gift

Gone Flying

they absolutely can not do that. Yes it is a gift, but age discrimination is illegal, just because they got a windfall does not mean you can discriminate against them.

if they were to be forced back to the right seat, it would have to be as a result of the law…like changing the law to prohibit CAs over 65 but allow FOs(not happening) or require thorough cog testing for a first class medical over 60 but not a second class.

Profane Kahuna

So one? And an ExTO person not VSP?

BLMPilot

That right there should tell you it’s an idiotic proposal.