US Air Pilots sue ALPA
06-28-2007, 08:31 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by A320fumes
I agree with that.....except "only". The 2005 West new-hire senior to the US Air guy with 17 years was shakin' what his mamma gave him until it became apparent that the windfall was not actually binding. So I guess we are in agreement. And I applaud the AAA guys in their litigation and not accepting " I thought binding was binding". Anytime a pilot who has sacrificed for a company for almost 2 decades is stapled, it does a dis-justice to the profession. BTW, I think DOH would have been a windfall too. Godspeed AAA!
I don't think the USAir pilots got a fair deal either. But, I would not say the AWA guys got a windfall. It was slighty unfavorable to the majority USAir pilots and slightly favorable to majority of the AWA pilots.
With regards to a 17 year USAir pilot, sorry but 17 years at USAir is on the bottom of the list. That means you get integrated with the bottom of the AWA list. And IMHO a furloughed pilot is an umemployed pilot, and as such should go below any pilot actually working at either airline.
Having said that, I think the one valid argument that the USAir pilots have is that they were going to experiance some rapid movement due to retirements. This should have somehow been factored in to the arbitration award. But even that would not have changed things a whole lot.
I don't think a judge is going to touch this. The ALPA process was followed, USAir agreed to arbitration, and I don't think the award is so far out of line as to give a judge reason to step in and void the union process.
06-28-2007, 08:54 AM
#12
No one's home
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by fogey
Seems to me that USAIR has had a lot of problems with decent management since Ed Colodny retired....BTW if as you claim 80% of the present profits come from the east side why couldn't you make any money before AWA management took over?
Under Ed, the entire PSA west coast operation was dismantled. (note: what airline did Lamar Muse and his boys study to create a small Texas airline now with more than 500 Boeings?) Ed had his boys dismantled the Florida Shuttle when it OWNED Florida. Ed's hand picked successor was able to give away trans-atlantic routes for zilch.
And with USAir shedding its pension liabilities (a tactic now studied intensely by other carriers and other industries) it came out a leaner organization. Granted, the old saying was Ed and his boys were so incompetent that they couldn't have gotten ****** at a women's prison while handing out pardons. But it is possible EVEN Ed could have made money after 2 bankruptcies.
06-28-2007, 10:29 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,483
Our MEC response today:
PHOENIX—The following statement is from the union leaders of the America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l. (ALPA).
In a desperate move, the pilots of US Airways are attempting to overturn an arbitrated seniority award by suing their own union. All 60,000 pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association will now be forced to use their union dollars to defend this complaint brought by the disgruntled pilots at US Airways.
Over the past two years, the America West and US Airways pilot groups have strictly adhered to ALPA Merger Policy to determine a new combined seniority list, as a result of the merger of the two airlines. This process included negotiations, mediation and arbitration. The failure of both sides to negotiate a settlement resulted in an arbitrated award that is final and binding.
While the "east" pilots characterized the award as "wholesale destruction," no US Airways pilot lost their position, base or pay. Instead, the award slotted 517 US Airways pilots at the top of the new seniority list, protected their desired international flying and assured them access to all growth at the airline. Despite the fact that on the eve of the merger, the pilots of US Airways were in their second bankruptcy, had more than 1,500 pilots on furlough and were facing liquidation, they believe that they are entitled to a new seniority list that would place their pilots, even those that were laid off at the time of the merger, above all their peers at America West.
The US Airways pilots erroneously pride themselves on having more experience than their counterparts at America West without any regard for the diverse military, airline and corporate backgrounds of all America West pilots. This arrogant approach to seniority is an inaccurate representation of the professionalism and experience of thousands of pilots represented by ALPA. Additionally, this lawsuit is a giant step backwards for all US Airways pilots both "east" and "west." Instead of focusing their resources on contract negotiations with management to obtain better pay, work rules and retirement for their pilots, the leadership of the US Airways "east" pilots is spending limited resources to overturn an arbitrated award.
In the meantime, US Airways management continues to cash in on millions of dollars in savings by keeping their pilots on one of the lowest pay scales in the industry. All pilots of the new US Airways deserve better and it is unfortunate the pilot union leaders on the "east" prefer litigation rather than abiding by their own union policies already established governing seniority integration.
The America West unit of ALPA is based in Phoenix and represents over 1800 pilots. America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l.
PHOENIX—The following statement is from the union leaders of the America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l. (ALPA).
In a desperate move, the pilots of US Airways are attempting to overturn an arbitrated seniority award by suing their own union. All 60,000 pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association will now be forced to use their union dollars to defend this complaint brought by the disgruntled pilots at US Airways.
Over the past two years, the America West and US Airways pilot groups have strictly adhered to ALPA Merger Policy to determine a new combined seniority list, as a result of the merger of the two airlines. This process included negotiations, mediation and arbitration. The failure of both sides to negotiate a settlement resulted in an arbitrated award that is final and binding.
While the "east" pilots characterized the award as "wholesale destruction," no US Airways pilot lost their position, base or pay. Instead, the award slotted 517 US Airways pilots at the top of the new seniority list, protected their desired international flying and assured them access to all growth at the airline. Despite the fact that on the eve of the merger, the pilots of US Airways were in their second bankruptcy, had more than 1,500 pilots on furlough and were facing liquidation, they believe that they are entitled to a new seniority list that would place their pilots, even those that were laid off at the time of the merger, above all their peers at America West.
The US Airways pilots erroneously pride themselves on having more experience than their counterparts at America West without any regard for the diverse military, airline and corporate backgrounds of all America West pilots. This arrogant approach to seniority is an inaccurate representation of the professionalism and experience of thousands of pilots represented by ALPA. Additionally, this lawsuit is a giant step backwards for all US Airways pilots both "east" and "west." Instead of focusing their resources on contract negotiations with management to obtain better pay, work rules and retirement for their pilots, the leadership of the US Airways "east" pilots is spending limited resources to overturn an arbitrated award.
In the meantime, US Airways management continues to cash in on millions of dollars in savings by keeping their pilots on one of the lowest pay scales in the industry. All pilots of the new US Airways deserve better and it is unfortunate the pilot union leaders on the "east" prefer litigation rather than abiding by their own union policies already established governing seniority integration.
The America West unit of ALPA is based in Phoenix and represents over 1800 pilots. America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l.
06-29-2007, 02:46 AM
#15
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
East demanded an unreasonable seniority integration with West.
East agreed to binding arbitration to decide the integration.
East didn't like the binding award and are suing ALPA because of it.
YGBSM...
How would YOU integrate the list, A320fumes?
East agreed to binding arbitration to decide the integration.
East didn't like the binding award and are suing ALPA because of it.
YGBSM...
How would YOU integrate the list, A320fumes?
06-29-2007, 07:17 AM
#16
Ben Salley
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
East demanded an unreasonable seniority integration with West.
East agreed to binding arbitration to decide the integration.
East didn't like the binding award and are suing ALPA because of it.
YGBSM...
How would YOU integrate the list, A320fumes?
East agreed to binding arbitration to decide the integration.
East didn't like the binding award and are suing ALPA because of it.
YGBSM...
How would YOU integrate the list, A320fumes?
Originally Posted by A320fumes
DOH would appropriate for all pilots on the property at the announcement of the merger with DOH prior to Jan 1999. Then DOH for then remaining 600 pilots whom were @ AAA & have sacrificed for AAA long before the 1999 new-hires. No AWest pilot who was on the property should lose his job for those furloughed 600 prior to 1999 hires, but when they return there sacrifice would allow them DOH. The remaining 1200 AAA guys, self-included, then be below the 1999 -2005 West pilots, as our sacrifice was not as grave as the aforementioned AAA guys w/10 years on the property, and The 1999-2005 West guys have sacrificed more than us. I think that more closely resembles fair.
06-29-2007, 10:13 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 222
Hello!!
Originally Posted by A320fumes
IMHO, and mark these words,"the arbitration will not stand". Thank you.
Oh yeah, the same ones that think 'binding arbitration' is only binding if it's what 'they' want!!
AW should have let USA go under before the merger. That way they could have kicked the guys/gals with attitudes to the curb, hired them back on their conditions, etc. Those people would have been banging on the door and accepting any terms at that point. They would have been wearing CACTUS hats. AW screwed up there.
I can't even imagine the work environment at USA in a few years when the fences come down. Ouch,...
06-30-2007, 08:41 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FDX A300 CPT
Posts: 967
MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE
June 28, 2007
This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Thursday, June 28th, with one new item.
A press release from the US Airways MEC was distributed nationally yesterday announcing the filing of a complaint in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia seeking to have the Nicolau Seniority Arbitration Award vacated. The press release will be emailed to all pilots and is posted in What’s New and on the public web site.
It accurately stated that as part of the seniority award, the arbitrator transferred over 4,450 Captain flying years, of both narrow-body and wide-body aircraft Captain jobs, from US Airways pilots to America West pilots, which is a blatant violation of ALPA Merger Policy. It also pointed out the award mixes US Airways pilots with approximately 17 years of active service and no furlough time with America West new hires.
MEC Chairman Captain Jack Stephan was quoted, “the US Airways Pilots’ leadership can not and will not sit idly by and permit a seniority integration award, which was conceived outside our national union’s merger policies, to devastate the careers of so many of our pilots…..”. He went on to say, “when we [the US Airways pilots] signed on to arbitration, we fully expected the governing policies to be complied with. They were not, and as a result, the careers of many US Airways pilots are threatened with wholesale destruction.”
In an in-accurate attempt to sway other ALPA pilot’s opinions and public opinion , AWA MEC fired off their own press release that stated, “In a desperate move, the pilots of US Airways are attempting to overturn an arbitrated seniority award by suing their own union.” The truth is, the complaint was filed against the America West MEC, period. In-accurate statements, half-truths and miss-characterizations are a page directly from management’s playbook. We hope that does not continue
June 28, 2007
This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Thursday, June 28th, with one new item.
A press release from the US Airways MEC was distributed nationally yesterday announcing the filing of a complaint in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia seeking to have the Nicolau Seniority Arbitration Award vacated. The press release will be emailed to all pilots and is posted in What’s New and on the public web site.
It accurately stated that as part of the seniority award, the arbitrator transferred over 4,450 Captain flying years, of both narrow-body and wide-body aircraft Captain jobs, from US Airways pilots to America West pilots, which is a blatant violation of ALPA Merger Policy. It also pointed out the award mixes US Airways pilots with approximately 17 years of active service and no furlough time with America West new hires.
MEC Chairman Captain Jack Stephan was quoted, “the US Airways Pilots’ leadership can not and will not sit idly by and permit a seniority integration award, which was conceived outside our national union’s merger policies, to devastate the careers of so many of our pilots…..”. He went on to say, “when we [the US Airways pilots] signed on to arbitration, we fully expected the governing policies to be complied with. They were not, and as a result, the careers of many US Airways pilots are threatened with wholesale destruction.”
In an in-accurate attempt to sway other ALPA pilot’s opinions and public opinion , AWA MEC fired off their own press release that stated, “In a desperate move, the pilots of US Airways are attempting to overturn an arbitrated seniority award by suing their own union.” The truth is, the complaint was filed against the America West MEC, period. In-accurate statements, half-truths and miss-characterizations are a page directly from management’s playbook. We hope that does not continue
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