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US house panel votes in age [67]
07-03-2023 | 09:04 AM
#201
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Part of the rub, much beyond age 60, is that everyone who is younger will experience some slowdown in seniority progression.
But there's no guarantee, for a specific individual, that he will have the health and stamina to take his own turn at age 65+. So you suffer some consequence but don't necessarily see any benefits.
And I'm willing to bet that most or all LTD programs specify "age 65" not "retirement". So LTD isn't going to be an option past 65 until/unless CBAs get re-negotiated.
But there's no guarantee, for a specific individual, that he will have the health and stamina to take his own turn at age 65+. So you suffer some consequence but don't necessarily see any benefits.
And I'm willing to bet that most or all LTD programs specify "age 65" not "retirement". So LTD isn't going to be an option past 65 until/unless CBAs get re-negotiated.
I believe most language is effective till faa mandated retirement age? There could be some language issues with third party agreements? Those benefits are normally carried forward in new agreements so I’ll guess if there was a language issue going 60-65 it was addressed with the till faa mandated retirement language in new policies.
07-03-2023 | 09:09 AM
#202
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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Likes: 681
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I believe most language is effective till faa mandated retirement age? There could be some language issues with third party agreements? Those benefits are normally carried forward in new agreements so I’ll guess if there was a language issue going 60-65 it was addressed with the till faa mandated retirement language in new policies.
07-03-2023 | 09:14 AM
#203
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F9 uses a third party. I believe it’s currently Hartford. Our language keeps you eligible until you can return to flying. Which would be 67.99 under new legislation. I would have to go read Hartford policy to make sure there’s no loophole there.
07-03-2023 | 09:27 AM
#204
Disinterested Third Party
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
Part of the rub, much beyond age 60, is that everyone who is younger will experience some slowdown in seniority progression.
But there's no guarantee, for a specific individual, that he will have the health and stamina to take his own turn at age 65+. So you suffer some consequence but don't necessarily see any benefits.
And I'm willing to bet that most or all LTD programs specify "age 65" not "retirement". So LTD isn't going to be an option past 65 until/unless CBAs get re-negotiated.
But there's no guarantee, for a specific individual, that he will have the health and stamina to take his own turn at age 65+. So you suffer some consequence but don't necessarily see any benefits.
And I'm willing to bet that most or all LTD programs specify "age 65" not "retirement". So LTD isn't going to be an option past 65 until/unless CBAs get re-negotiated.
Each was handled on its merits as an individual case, or by agreement and MOU as needed.
Negotiations don't just end at date of signing.
07-03-2023 | 09:39 AM
#205
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Joined: Dec 2012
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I was in engineered cockpits when the move from 60 to 65 happened; I saw captains who moved from captain to engineer, return to the left seat, then retire again to the FE seat. Such changes hadn't been incorporated in the CBA's because the regulation had changed since the CBA was negotiated. Consequently, issues such as keeping seniority the second time around reared up, and other things which hadn't been addressed.
Each was handled on its merits as an individual case, or by agreement and MOU as needed.
Negotiations don't just end at date of signing.
Each was handled on its merits as an individual case, or by agreement and MOU as needed.
Negotiations don't just end at date of signing.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 07-03-2023 at 09:55 AM.
07-03-2023 | 02:18 PM
#206
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Joined: Apr 2011
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07-03-2023 | 02:18 PM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,528
Likes: 197
From: UNA
Delta is FAA retirement age. If age changes so does the LTD plan
heard this story through the grapevine so it may be total BS, but apparently there were cases where pilots did not have a ton of time vested in the pension (I think this applies to some of the guys who came over from pan am) and thus would have had a low FAE%. instead they bid back to FE at 59.5 yo and went out on disability from that seat. Since FEs did not have a mandatory retirement age there was no age when the payments would stop as long as you were alive.
heard this story through the grapevine so it may be total BS, but apparently there were cases where pilots did not have a ton of time vested in the pension (I think this applies to some of the guys who came over from pan am) and thus would have had a low FAE%. instead they bid back to FE at 59.5 yo and went out on disability from that seat. Since FEs did not have a mandatory retirement age there was no age when the payments would stop as long as you were alive.
07-03-2023 | 04:15 PM
#208
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Delta is FAA retirement age. If age changes so does the LTD plan
heard this story through the grapevine so it may be total BS, but apparently there were cases where pilots did not have a ton of time vested in the pension (I think this applies to some of the guys who came over from pan am) and thus would have had a low FAE%. instead they bid back to FE at 59.5 yo and went out on disability from that seat. Since FEs did not have a mandatory retirement age there was no age when the payments would stop as long as you were alive.
heard this story through the grapevine so it may be total BS, but apparently there were cases where pilots did not have a ton of time vested in the pension (I think this applies to some of the guys who came over from pan am) and thus would have had a low FAE%. instead they bid back to FE at 59.5 yo and went out on disability from that seat. Since FEs did not have a mandatory retirement age there was no age when the payments would stop as long as you were alive.
Yeah it would be a fairly large oversight if anyone actually had an age number considering it happened somewhat recently and there’s been at least two contact cycles since.
07-04-2023 | 09:02 AM
#209
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I believe AS has a number, 65. They also have a pretty good LTD so maybe there was some negotiated compromise, vice oversight on the part of the NC. Age 67 rumblings were happening before they signed their contract last fall.
07-04-2023 | 11:27 AM
#210
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 576
Likes: 13
I would see it more a benefit to subsidize flight training, and get a younger crowd coming in, rather than pay the expensive crowd to hang around. Or to go out of “medical” for 2 years. That would keep a seniority list moving, not stagnate it. Just a thought
plus not to mention ICAO will need to be changed too, IF any of those older pilots want to stay on a widebody
plus not to mention ICAO will need to be changed too, IF any of those older pilots want to stay on a widebody
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