Macau

Hey Guys, I have just had my green card approved, but I don't understand much about the American market. I'm flying on the Middle East A380 and have roughly 10k hours (SIC). I am not interested in flying widebodies anymore; I can't get used to the different time zones, and ULR flights are really boring for me. I have a house in the MCO area and was planning to move there. However, everyone I talk to says I should apply to the legacy carriers no matter what. However, I was thinking about Frontier, JetBlue, Avelo... I am looking for quality of life, command upgrade and $$$$. Any thoughts? Any ideas to help me? What is the difference between legacy carriers and the major airlines I've mentioned? I really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Safe flights

rickair7777

Legacy Airlines: Officially those which conducted inter-state flying prior to de-regulation in 1978. Only five left: AA, DL, UA, AS, HA

Colloquially speaking, people often mean "Big Three" when they use the word legacy: AA, DL, UA.

Major: Any 121 airline which sells pax tickets under it's own brand, and has that brand painted on it's aircraft.

Majors are often categorized informally in "tiers", which generally reflects the size of the airline, as well it's desireability from a pilot career perspective:

Tier 1: Typically Big Three, FDX/UPS
Tier 2: Typically AS, B6, HA, maybe NK, F9, Allegiant
Tier 3: Small niche pax airlines, startups, most frieght, charter, ACMI, random cats and dogs.

Regionals are not majors, they don't have their own band, but some might be better careers than some tier 3 majors (mostly due to job stability).

SWA could be either tier 1 or 2, depending on your perspective. They just got a good contract, but they don't have the kind of retirements as the big three so from a career perspective most folks are better off at big three, with most other factors equal.

WXS15

Flying for a legacy doesn't mean you ever have to fly wide-bodies. In fact, I would argue it makes more sense to go to a legacy since many other pilots DO want to fly WBs and that means your seniority will move faster on the NB side, not to mention the better contracts, stability, and pay. You would also have the option of going back to a WB if you ever change your mind.
If you don't want to move, United has a 737 base in Orlando. Either way, apply everywhere and make a decision one you actually have CJOs.

Rama

May be difficult to compare contracts for a newbie here since most seem to be dated.
HAL is curent, but a pay raise will start in March and the 401k is 16%.

Sliceback

We had a couple guys quit or take early retirement and go the ME. Mostly Emirates 777 Captains. Fun for awhile...most quit EK and came back to the U.S. even to be a bottom newhire at a Big 4 (AA/DL/UA + SW). In general U.S. w/b flying is better than the EK w/b flying, from what they talked about, due to the different hours and locations of the hubs vs destinations. U.S. to Europe is typically a 4-8 PM departure and land about 0500-0600 body time. Three hour nap, wake up groggy as can be, play tourist and walk around, have dinner, a couple of beers, and back to sleep for 8-10 hrs. Next morning is not too bad for Europe time....0600-0800 wakeup. Oops, body time is 0100-0300. Yup, wake up groggy again. Home for dinner, go to sleep about an hour earlier, wake up an hour later than normal, 'international hangover' (jet lag/sleep cycle switching) until noon, normal after that. But we get a 3rd guy at 8 hrs and a 4th guy at 12 hrs. More time off. Less than 8 hrs to Europe but more than 8 hrs coming back? You get the 3rd pilot BOTH ways. Same with the 12 hr flights - 11 hrs one way and 12:01 coming back? You get the 4th guy both ways. Deep South (U.S. to S. America) is late departures both ways. Typically the most junior flying. The expats who left U.S. flying, or U.S. w/b flying, said the EK flying was a grind in comparison to most of the U.S. w/b flying.

Going to a Big 3 gives you the option of doing w/b if and when you'd like to. Unlike overseas you can bid ANYTHING you can hold every 2 years. You can switch bases every month or at least 3-4x a year. Your plane gets retired? Or removed from your base? You bid for whatever you want and can force yourself into a bid status that has no openings. They'll put you into the bid status and remove the junior pilot. He will have first recall rights to regain his old job before an new guys can bid into his old job. It's a VASTLY different system than overseas. You can fly n/b FO for 1-4 years, bid w/b FO, and after a year or two years bid off to became a n/b CA. Two years later bid to a different n/b CA, or even n/b FO seat, or w/b FO seat. Rinse and repeat every 2 years if you want. Or bid one airplane and stay on it, by choice, for the next 30 years. It's a VASTLY different system. You need to sit down with a U.S. friend at a Big 3 airline and find out how they run their work life.

highfarfast

Never underestimate the NB seniority kick that comes from everyone else chasing the WB dream. I don't have any interest in doing WB flying either and made sure I went to a legacy.

That said, living in base matters. It matters a lot. It's worth A LOT of seniority. You didn't indicate whether you'd commute if needed from MCO or move to a base elsewhere but there are airlines with domiciles in MCO.

Sliceback

Bingo. Top 2000 active seniority numbers at AA right now - 800 w/b CA's, 400 n/b CA's, 100 w/b FO's, 10 n/b FO's. Roughly 1,300 of 2,000 active line pilots. Two thirds are out of your way if you stay as a n/b CA. The advancement as a n/b FO is even greater because of the w/b flying.

Neighbor is 26% of all FO's. But so many guys go to the w/b he's 8% of all n/b FO's. There's a world of difference between being 8% in a bid status and 26%.

To get the biggest bang for your buck you stay as a n/b CA in a w/b base. N/b base only? At 2000 seniority you'll be 15% of n/b CA's system wide at AA. In a w/b base and you stay on n/b's? You'll be at 6% overall.

If someone says "I'm not interested in w/b flying" they're completely missing the boat as to the reasons why guys fly them *OR* the benefit they get from a LOT of guys senior to them LEAVING the n/b bid status and THEY benefit from it by staying on the n/b. "I have no interest in w/b flying" is the same as saying "I don't care if my relative seniority improves." No one says that. The n/b guys benefit the most from the w/b flying as far as bidding power goes.

Turbosina

This is great insight.

C11DCA

Just an edit the min crew required part. FAR117 changed it to 8/9 or 13 hours when adding additional pilots. 8/12 was the old rule. However an airline's specific contract may stipulate something more restrictive.

From the ALPA FTDT guide:


A-44. If you are not assigned to an augmented crew, using your
report time, you determine your flight-time limit by using
the following Table:

TABLE A TO PART 117—MAXIMUM FLIGHT-TIME LIMITS
FOR UNAUGMENTED OPERATIONS TABLE
Time of Report
(Acclimated)
Maximum Flight Time
(Hours)
0000–0459 ...........8
0500–1959 ...........9
2000–2359 ...........8


Q-61. What are the flight-time limits for augmented crew?

A-61. For a three-pilot crew, it is 13 hours; for a four-pilot crew, it
is 17 hours.

Sliceback

Our's is 8/12 per contract.