Hey man, you make some good posts & when it comes to the FL350 view, you and I are largely in agreement. However, in the interest of intellectual integrity, I’ve got to stop you there. Iran has, in fact, been a very bad actor in the region for a long time. They have given direct support in the form of cash, weapons, training, and advisement & even direct leadership to proxies in the region who have directly engaged US forces on myriad occasions. Hell, sometimes the “proxies” are little more than badly disguised Iranian irregular forces. While I think, as I believe you do, that the current operation was ill conceived and poorly executed & will create more problems than it solves, make no mistake, there have been plenty of recent reasons to engage the regime kinetically. I just wish we would’ve been smarter about it as I believe we will not achieve our objectives there anytime soon. About the KC-135 “collision”, we have seen no official confirmation that that’s what happened. You may be a bit premature in your assessment.

I had to shake my head when I read that too. My responses would have surely been deleted by the mods so I will leave it at that. Some people just can't be reasoned with.

Spicy, cinco peppers picante.

If you bothered to watch the Israeli PM on 60 mins last night, he made their position clear in a way which leaves little doubt on Iran, Iran’s proxies, growing progress with other Arab governments and rejection of a non binding no nuke treaty. Let’s face it, Iran is a headless Islamic jihad state with the supreme inner circle now decimated. Who knows how long such volatility may last or when resumption of semi-routine gulf trade may occur.

Omg, none of what you wrote here is correct. And the, “it’s not a vaccine” stuff is incorrect too. Wherever you’re “doing your research” is completely bonkers.

Yes CA politicians absolutely created a fuel shortage (all the ones we care about gas, diesel, kerosene).

And now they get to blame it on DJT, just in time for the midterms. Not sure why he didn't let them lie in the bed they made for a while and do Iran after midterms :confused:

Sure. But we are talking US soldiers. A very limited amount have died in the ME, excluding the Iraq (and Syria) wars . So, what incident are we accusing Iran of murdering U.S. soldiers?

How about 30+ U.S. Navy sailors by Israel as a “oops.” Can you imagine if Iran did an oops that killed 30+ U.S. soldiers? Or shot down an airliner that killed 290 U.S. citizens? When it comes to engagement, we seem to have done way more to them than they ever did. Besides, what group specifically armed by Iran killed US citizens? Maybe the Yemen Houthis but they have hit locals around them, not Americans.


Engaging them kinetically means drop bombs in Tehran. That, I disagree with. Yet another useless war. Like anything, follow the money. Any vocal US politician for the attacks on Iran, study their bank accounts and see how much AIPAC money they took. The Ted Cruz types. Who when interviewed by Tucker of all people, gave cowardly answers with zero actual knowledge about the country of Iran.

He should have been jailed for war crimes long ago. How does he get prime time on 60 minutes. Don’t answer that, I already know the uncomfortable answer to that question.

That was adjudicated an accident. After we drove a spy ship into a hot war zone. Fog of war happens. Yawn.

It is a good example of why not to trust IL to exercise restraint, but that's the extent of the significance.

Iran started a battle with US naval forces, and they flew an airliner right into it. Fog of war happens. Yawn.

All excused under the guise of “fog of war.” Somehow, I have a feeling if Iran had done that, they don’t get any benefit of the doubt of “fog of war.”



By the way, “they” needs to be a distinction between the military of Iran, versus civilian airliner who has nothing to do with the nonsense going on in the SOH.

The Americans had access to flight schedule pamphlets, a screen that showed the airplane clearly climbing away at 250 knots, not diving. And no, they weren’t monitoring 121.5. Bandar Abbas to Dubai is a short flight. Radio #2 would have have been busy getting weather, company ops, in range, etc. Not to mention, the F14 was not a carrier/destroyer attack aircraft with how they had them equipped.


But “fog of war” are some (not all) of a certain type of person I see in my CCW class. The ones who are sprung and ready, literally looking for a reason to shoot and legally kill someone.

Thankfully one time there was a certain Russian commander who was able to not be confused with fog of war, use a clear rational sound mind, and decide that he was not looking at 5 real nukes in his screen headed towards Russia from America.

History is written by the victors. Victors can adjudicate whatever they feel was an accident. The victim side, the loser in that case, has no say.

Iran increased its support for DA terrorism as well as through its proxies following the passage of the JCPOA. This isn’t a secret.

the eu is our largest trading partner lol……. Maybe read a bit and not just watch your partisan reels to get your information

Is this a poor attempt at a strawman? Just because Europe is ruining itself from the inside doesn't mean I hope for it to happen. A strong Europe is great for the U.S. but their own policies have made them weak. I have no control over that. I can only serve and vote in the United States.

Americans don't understand power and influence.

You vote? How sweet. Here's a lolly pop. Your vote is exactly equal to those of the 54% or so of Americans who read below a 6th grade level. 20% are functionally illiterate.

The Kagan Clan understands how power and influence works. As does the Kristol clan.

(Despise them both. But I don't understand power or influence either, so I guess this is what we get)

They literally flew right into it. The IR government let them do it. No sympathy.

The FAA would have closed any such airspace to US aircraft.

Monday morning QB is easy, especially when you have the enemy talking points and no combat experience and no military experience.

Are we talking about a road-raging redneck in a pickup truck? Or geoplitical affairs?

It ended in 2018. So what are you referring to? “Iran attacks via proxies” is a trending term on podcasts and right wing media. Weird how that works.

In late 80s? Doubtful.

And “they” did not know of the escalation down there. Chasing down small boats against orders is not something that was anticipated.

Thats a cop out answer.


Both.

Weird, there was no shortage before bombs started dropping.

It actually is Trumps fault my dude. Anyone who cannot see that truly needs to turn off Fox.

Yeah, a guy that supported the Iraq war and doubled down later to increase troop levels

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-iraq-war.html

Just as an example of one easily findable article.

Weird, his wiki seems to omit such things.....

So you are saying that Iran hasn’t trained Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis and others for decades? And by after the JCPOA, I’m talking about 2015-18 while it was in effect. I know…crazy what happens when you release billions to a terrorist regime.

And 2018-present was different, how? It was after 2018 when Trump killed the Obama deal that Iran went unchecked.

Hamad, Houthis, Hezbollah. The three Hs. Just more podcast and right wing talking points. The typical American has no clue what they are. Reminds me of when Hegseth and Vance said that they need to frame this to the public differently, because no one knows who Houthis are or where Yemen is.

Sounds like an Israeli problem, not a US problem. Or were. Now they are a US problem too. More terrorist enemies, super great!

I feel like I really didn't care about them and neither did 99.9% of Americans who just wanted to live their life here and buy cheap gas who never planned to travel to Palestine.

2018-present would be that they have less money to do so (and getting less by the day).

Terrorist groups are talking points. That’s a new take.

Kinda like the USA proking Japan with oil embargoes prior the WWII. I mean they wernt doing anything to us and Britain had been at war for 2 years before we brought Japan's warranted actions on Pearl Harbor. We should have just stayed out of that....nobody was bothering us.

You can only push a country so far(oil embargoes agsint Japan) before they will retaliate.


Kinda like that?

Brotha, I’ve been overhead as it was happening. It wasn’t just the Baathist’s & ISIS we were fighting in Iraq and Syria. Completely agree that we are sliding down the path of forever war once again, but we still have to call a spade a spade. I happen to think the current guy in the White House is about the worst case scenario for the US in times like these, but that doesn’t mean Iran gets let off the hook. I’m honestly conflicted by our current predicament. Part of me understands the argument that once we’re this deep, the only option is to finish things. Maybe, with better planning and execution, that could’ve been an option. The realist in me understands that the American public will tire of the “excursion” long before it bears the fruit it was intended to. Sh!tty situation all around.

It’s been an ongoing conflict for the region and 1st world interests since UN resolution 181 divided Jerusalem in two along a religious fault line that’s erupted into war, 1948–49, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, 2006, and 2023–present. Best outcome is face to face mediation Iran/Israel. Not bloody likely anytime soon I’d say.

That is, quite simply, a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened. The US government officially attempted to blame it on Iran, but the facts of that occurrence point overwhelmingly point to huge mistakes on the part of the US cruiser that blew them up, similar to how Russians shot down an airliner a few years ago, the Soviets shot down KAL 007 and we shot down an F-18 just a few months ago. You really need to go back and read the story of what happened. Just like all those other governments screwed one up, we screwed this one up.

I don't remember Iran attacking Pearl Harbor, do you have a link?

In concept true actually. Magnum PI season 3. Higgins was brainwashed by a sultry Persian princess who tried to use Zeus & Apollo for a diversion to hijack some poorly protected boomer docked at pearl.

I deem this your most cogent and comprehensible post of all time. Bravo sir.

Exquisite.




Filler……….

BS narrative that evolved after the fact.

I actually knew some of the folks involved. The CO was aggressive, but he was also in combat and entitled to protect his ship and crew if in doubt. There is always fog of war, even more so when the engagement is happening in the middle of densely populated water and airways. No sympathy, Iran should have just canceled commercial flights over the gulf while they were attacking US forces. I'm pretty sure the regime kind of hoped something like that would happen. They definitely did not mind when it did.

You work for the FAA, you know darn well that WE would have closed the airspace, not just kept launching unwitting martyrs into the line of fire.

There were lessons learned for future reference. But the powers that be didn't monday morning QB the guy.

It was the Germans, and it wasn't over after that.

Hegseth thought enough of the publication to include them in upcoming classified war plans. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-plans/682151/

Where do you want to start? We can go back to the 1983 Marine Barracks in Beirut... 241 Marines, or how about the Beirut Embassy Bombings? You want to exclude Iraq? Why? You can’t discuss Iranian kinetic engagement while ignoring the Quds Force and the EFPs that accounted for hundreds of U.S. casualties. Those weren't 'accidents'; they were targeted. And no, contrary to what people believe in your native Pakistan, our country and our military do not deliberately shoot down airliners full of innocent civilians. You're comparing a tragic fog-of-war accident to deliberate targeting of US and Israeli civilians. Funny how you also conveniently omit that the US paid $131 million in compensation for the accident. Do you recall Iran ever paying any compensation for their terror activities throughout the decades or say.... Khobar Towers bombing that killed 19 US airmen? I sure don't.

As for 'following the money,' it is a cliché, lazy, and pathetic pivot to AIPAC. It’s ironic that you’ve built a career as a pilot in the US while still clutching the same anti-American tropes and regional biases you were raised with..... you are deliberately dismissing a documented trail of American blood just to protect that narrative.

hard feedback, that’s what I come here for..
https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cut.gif

But Hillary's public emails discussing State secrets was not? k, we'll pretend you actually care

There is no point, unless the ladies from The View told him it happened he won't believe you.

An airliner squawking a civilian code the entire time, on a known civilian route, in contact with ATC the entire time, on commercial air corridor amber 59, yet the ship tried to contact them on military frequencies and did not have any equipment for civilian air traffic frequencies. And because ethe US navy personnel didn't follow their own rules for resetting range identification, they (on the ship) designated it with an erroneous unfriendly IFF code, also erroneously stating that the aircraft was descending towards the ship, which it was not. And as opposed to the ship that shot it down, the crew of USS Sides, which issued one final challenge after the 10 of Vincennes, indicated that they had from take-off identified Flight 655 as a commercial flight. We had issued a NOTAM to stay more than 5 miles away from warships and that civilian traffic may continue as long as it originated/went to approved locations, which this one did. We screwed this up bad. Fog of war isn't an excuse to not follow procedure.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was literally going to ask him he was from that part of the world. Explains a lot.