When you finally made one, it was a doosey. No harm, no foul. We just happen to disagree on just about everything. Godspeed!

 

So who are you, Michael Vick?

 

Idiot Morons

 

Looking at this from the outside what troubles me the most is that an ALPA members say 20 years of membership has zero value. ALPA national is blaming the MEC and not looking out for the individual members, very poor leadership from the new president.

 

Well, I think at TWA ALPA did not... Oh, sorry, wrong airline - same treatment...

 

You are correct with your thesis that as far as APLA is concerned its individual members have zero value; however, you are missing the point ALPA national plays in support of its members. The role of ALPA, or any large union, is not to look out for the individual member. ALPA national views its primary duty is to the collective and if they have to sacrifice a few individuals to achieve whatever end the political bosses desire then so be it. The essence of forced unionism is collectivism and collectivism is the political theory that states the will of the people has primacy over all else. In practice this means the will of the individual is subordinate to the group. It renders the individual as sacrificial fodder for whoever seizes political power. Many people who post on this board believe the economic needs of the membership as a whole is what has primacy, and the individual member must merely serve for the good of the group. (For evidence just look to the calls on this forum for a national seniority list as well as a national airline) This is a main tenet of socialism and in every instance where it has been tried it has failed miserably in terms of personal happiness, quality of life issues, and the creation of wealth.

 

Yes the countries of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway are complete wrecks.

The system is only as good as its managers.

 

I find it hard to believe that some of you can't understand the feelings of a group who has worked for a company for 20+ years and by no fault of their own (ok, maybe some fault) find themselves in a bad position. They are in that position with no hope of it getting better unless they do something to change it. If it is true that you can't understand, it is pretty sad.

If you go to their webpage each one of the points on their "platform" is valid. Sometimes to get things the way they are supposed to be, you have to do something revolutionary. I get the feeling that some of you would do anything to "save the company and save your jobs."

Im glad your thought's weren't in the majority in 1776. Oh, I forgot, those thought's were in the majority. We are just lucky that you didn't win.

P.S. I'm not comparing the US East pilots to George Washington and the founders and I know they've had many shortcomings. (ie. They didn't strike when they lost their pensions, took a hard line stance with the seniority integration, ect.) But, my issue is that many of you express contempt that they show no regard to ALPA or the company. But, what has ALPA or the company done for them and what would you do if you were in their shoes?

 

I goota chime in Hear. What would you have The President of ALPA do in the case of an ALPA to ALPA merger? (i.e AWA and USAir).
Should he have taken sides and supported East Pilots over West?

Look I am extremely sympathetic to the USAir East because what happend to them could happen to anyone of us at a moments notice.

The bulk of what happend at USAir East was out of the USAir MEC and ALPA National's control.

The merger with AWest/ USAir was out of both MEC's and ALPA National's control. Doug Parker, The BOD and the Shareholders were in control.

The Seniority Integration was, however, between the MEC's of USAir and America West, and because both sides agreed to Binding Arbitration, was ultimately in the hands of Mr. Nicholau the Arbitrator. With 20/20 Hindsight, I am sure that USAir East pilots would not have agreed to Binding arbitration or would have at least altered their strategy/ demands. But we would all be Billionaires with 20/20 hindsight wouldn't we........except us Pilots that is

ALPA National cannot choose sides in a merger between 2 ALPA represented groups.

 

I agree with most of your post Redeye. I do however believe that it's clearly obvious to ALPA national that this is a windfall. The AAA pilot group is doing all that they can do to salvage what's left of their careers. Perhaps too little, too late. Always liked the AWest pilot group too, but this award sets a bad alpa/alpa precedent. Hope it works out for the best. Integration probably years away.