Flying

Howdy,

I'm in the March 3rd class at DAL, which now sounds like a class of 50. I have a very high last-four SSN so BB says I should have my choice of aircraft (among those offered, of course). I'd appreciate your thoughts on what aircraft and base I should pick given these circumstances:
Priorities:
1 - Time at home
2 - Type of flying (prefer longer legs over 6-hop madness)
3 - Money

Commute:
MCI - NYC: ~8 non-stops/day, but none on DAL
MCI - ATL: ~15+ non-stops/day, half on DAL
MCI - CVG/SLC: ~4 non-stops/day, all on DAL

Things I'm considering:
- Would commuting be less painful as a two-hop to a line (like NYC) or a non-stop to reserve (like ATL)?
- How big a difference is it to commute online vs. offline? I know we can reserve jumpseats on DAL 2 days prior, since reserve is considered pleasure travel.
- Would you bid an aircraft that you want to be on for awhile given the upcoming merger possibility and associated freezes, etc?
- If something like a 765 or 777 was offered, would it be crazy to take it (commuting to reserve for years?)

Sorry for the lengthy post, and thanks in advance!

Lifeisgood

Congrats and welcome to Delta! Class of 50 .. wow! Having choices is wonderful

I would research if the 12-hour call out is possible for your commute i.e. the gaps between the flights in the evening and through the night are short enough.

Taking any heavy in ATL with only 8 days/month max physically in ATL would give you time at home with long legs.
Always a trade off with "6 hop madness" on the 88 and holding a line and schedules improvements sooner.

LG

Flying

Thanks LG, I feel very fortunate to be in this position. I know they can use short-call 8 times/month...would I know about those when I receive my schedule? I've seen posts about scheduling converting long-calls to short-calls. I'm imagining getting a call at home saying "You're now on short-call" and going immediately to the airport to commute to base/crashpad. Would I be expected to put myself within the "reasonable" time of 2 hours with no prior notice? The flights to ATL run about every hour from 9am to 9pm.

iaflyer

When they convert you from long call to short call, you have 10 hours to get to ATL (or whatever your base is). After that, you can also use 2 more hours report get to commute to the airport) so effectively you have 12 hours. As I understand it, it's the call at 8pm for a 8am short call that are the most difficult when you have a commute like yours.

BlaineFaban

I am in a similar situation as yours, except that I am an 88 captain out of NY for Delta. I will withhold a recommendation as to not influence what might be best for you and your family. I will provide some insight, however.

I commute from the midwest as well. Sitting reserve in NY is not going to be fun. They can put you on short call 8 times a month. For domestic, that consists of 8 12 hour periods. For international categories, it is 8 24 HOUR PERIODS. They CAN give you 12 hours to a trip or 12 hours until the start of short call. It does not happen often. What usually happens is sometime between 9-11 EST, they fill open time for the next day with long call pilots. So often, for a 1600 Milan report the next day, you will know about it at 9 AM the day prior. That's not bad at all. The next day short call is usually filled by 1500 for the next day. So often, you will have 14-24 hours notice for the start of short call. This as a general rule of thumb.

As a lineholder in NYC on the -88, things are still not all that rosy. The NYC -88 trips are not commutable on both sides, save 1 or 2 trips a month. So you will either be coming in the night before or staying the night you get back. Also, the trips are largely composed of 1 and 2 day trips, so many times you will be spending the night in-between trips. Additionally, bottom lineholders in NYC often times have schedules which have 1 day off between 1 day trips several times throughout the month. I have seen schedules such as 5 on, 1 off, 1 on, two off, 2 on, 2 off, 5 on, etc. Not too pretty. Until you get about 1/2 way up the list in NYC on the 88, you will have a fairly poor quality of life. The good news is that you get there fairly quickly. There is a lot of talk about the more senior f/os in NY finally bidding over to international, and this next bid should be very telling. The -800 in NYC, will be almost exactly the same, except that you will not get as senior as quickly. As far as the commute itself, not bad at all. All kinds of airlines go to LGA and JFK. There are busses, specialized taxi companies, etc to get you back and forth to various airports. I've even had to go to EWR, catch a ride with the crew downtown, and catch a hotel crew going to JFK. It was a pain in the arse, but was the only option left and cost me nothing.

767 ER will also have it's shortcomings very similar to the -88, with the exception of the fact that just about everything is commutable on both sides. I would also plan on being on reserve longer than the -88. I know several April '07 hires that are line holders on the -ER.

Atlanta's categories are larger, which means you will be on reserve longer regardless of aircraft. I would venture a guess that -88 ATL will be dramatically less reserve time than ER Atlanta. Atlanta -88 is much more commutable, both in terms of flights and trips. ER is also very commutable trip-wise. Crash pads aren't found as readily as NYC, but are there.

I have a pretty good schedule in NY, and will be going back to ATL just for the better trips, and the variety, and the better commutability. I will be in the lower part of the lineholders on the -88, and my schedule will be better than being senior in NYC, as a commuter IMO.

Feel free to ask more questions if that didn't help. I'll try to get back on here a bit more often in the next few days.

Big3win

Don't worry.....DTW,MSP are great bases in the winter!

sully606

Blaine gave a good rundown.
I'm on reserve on the ER in NYC and for me it is better than senior line holder on the 88 in ATL. I commute from ORD and use off-line jumpseating almost exclusively; it's fine. Comair flys ORD-JFK and I've used them twice since May. Point being, I have found Jet Blue, American, and UAL to be a better and more reliable experience - thanks guys.
I haven't looked at the Delta schedule from MCI to CVG and SLC but if it's all RJs then I would consider that off-line jumpseating. Nothing against Comair,Skywest,ASA,etc. but you cannot reserve the jumpseat in advance and the RJs have weight and balance issues from time-to-time.
It was mentioned that the ER is more commutable. That is going to change slightly with some of the new destinations. We will soon have a few early morning sign-ins with the Central American and Heathrow flying and probably more to come.

rvr350

How about a new hire holding 757/767 out of ATL? What kind of trips can one expect?

From the look of the last AE, i think for the future classes in Mar., there will be lots of 88 slots both out of NYC and ATL, but how about ATL 75/76? Thanks for any input.

Bucking Bar

Do you mean domestic 767, or do you mean either the Domestic, or ER?

This applies to Domestic which was junior, but has recently changed because the 17 TWA 757's have been mostly staffed. I doubt there will be any ATL 767 (including 757) slots for new hires. There are no openings on this AE bid and several friends senior to me have indicated they are bidding it because of the NWA merger in the hope that there is an opening to backfill from this AE bid. There are probably many pilots thinking now is the time to move from the 88. I expect these slots to go senior.

A new hire on the 88 might be holding a line by the end of summer. That gives you more flexibility to get additional flying for money and the pay difference between the 757 and 88 is around 11 hours a month. In other words 81 hours = 70 on the 757 pay wise. It would be easy to yellow slip two days a month to get that time and still be off more than your buddy flying reserve on the 757.

Most of the 757/767 trips are four days with a percentage of three day trips. There are day lines that go VERY senior. As a reserve, you'll get a little of everything. I've even been deadheaded to another base, picked up a couple of legs and DH back to ATL.

If you want the 767 and the ER option is available, you might want to grab it. Those seats are pretty senior at NWA, around a decade and a half from where we are now. Later this year the 777 may go junior due to the amount of growth coming it's way. You might want to save your AE bid for the 777.

As you will learn in class, your first bid in class is a freebie and you can bid again. Once you take an AE bid then you are locked for two years.

TBoneF15

I think it's a long shot that any new hires will get ATL 75/76. In fact, I don't think there's even been an assignment (in any aircraft) to ATL in many months for new hire drops, so there is a LONG line of junior dudes waiting to bid back to ATL (to any aircraft, really). Then add in the less junior dudes that have just been waiting until they could hold a line in ATL, and the picture gets uglier. There doesn't seem to be any domestic growth right now, so that won't make any room for more 75/76 jobs. And that job is a pretty sweet deal, so I'm guessing there won't be a lot of dudes bidding out of it to make room for us. I know there seem to be a lot of openings in 88s right now in ATL as well, but I suspect a lot of those will be taken in the AE bid too since, at least for the last several classes, there have been 12-14 NY 88s per class, and not many of those folks wanted to be in NY.

I know some dudes who started as late as Oct were able to bid to 75/76 ATL on the last bid, but I think in general that goes pretty senior.

Hate to burst your bubble, dude, and I don't profess be psychic, but I wouldn't hold your breath for ATL if you are in the March 3 class (i.e. after the AE bid). Never say never, though...good luck.

In terms of trips...from the dudes I know that are flying that, it seems like it varies from transcon (i.e. long legs to the west coast with some really great red eyes thrown in for fun), to the Mickey Mouse shuttle (a bunch of short legs back and forth to Florida).