NWA or DAL
12-10-2007, 03:30 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
NWA or DAL
Long time lurker's first post! I am in a fortunate position with a job offer from NWA and an interview with DAL. Looking at the current state of affairs and future projections, which is a better place for a new hire? (As for commute, I will just move into a base with either airline---so it is not really a factor).
From all the research I did (airlinepilotcentral, actual contracts, retirements numbers etc), it looks like a tough call. (If I get turned down by DAL, I will have no decision to make though!)
DAL treats it's employees better. First year FO pay is $49 vs. $31 at NWA. Delta's payscale is better than NWA. However, all flying over 80 hrs is 1.5 times at NWA. Delta has more wide-bodies for people with aspirations of international flying like myself. Delta has more base choices. They fly to a lot of international destinations in Europe with aggressive expansion planned for 2008.
However, when it comes to the retirement front, NWA trumps DAL. NWA is the oldest pilot group and DAL is the youngest pilot group in the US. NWA has around 55% pilots retiring in ten years. DAL has around 40% retiring in ten years. However, the catch come with age 65 deal. DAL has very few retirements in the next five years. If age 65 passes, DAL will have around 10% retiring in ten years + some medical-outs. Since NWA has frozen pensions, most will quit even if age 65 goes through. They still will have at least 45% retiring---even with age 65. NWA has international expansion planned as well---in the form of 787s to Asia. They do some limited freight flying too. However, DC-9 departures at NWA can hurt some hiring---I believe.
Whats the airlinepilotcentral community response??
From all the research I did (airlinepilotcentral, actual contracts, retirements numbers etc), it looks like a tough call. (If I get turned down by DAL, I will have no decision to make though!)
DAL treats it's employees better. First year FO pay is $49 vs. $31 at NWA. Delta's payscale is better than NWA. However, all flying over 80 hrs is 1.5 times at NWA. Delta has more wide-bodies for people with aspirations of international flying like myself. Delta has more base choices. They fly to a lot of international destinations in Europe with aggressive expansion planned for 2008.
However, when it comes to the retirement front, NWA trumps DAL. NWA is the oldest pilot group and DAL is the youngest pilot group in the US. NWA has around 55% pilots retiring in ten years. DAL has around 40% retiring in ten years. However, the catch come with age 65 deal. DAL has very few retirements in the next five years. If age 65 passes, DAL will have around 10% retiring in ten years + some medical-outs. Since NWA has frozen pensions, most will quit even if age 65 goes through. They still will have at least 45% retiring---even with age 65. NWA has international expansion planned as well---in the form of 787s to Asia. They do some limited freight flying too. However, DC-9 departures at NWA can hurt some hiring---I believe.
Whats the airlinepilotcentral community response??
12-10-2007, 03:44 PM
#3
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,706
I live in the Detroit area, so NWA would of been an obvious choice for me. I was not in your shoes - I didn't have an offer from NWA, but I believe that I had a decent chance of obtaining an interview (many internal recs and an excellent resume) from NWA. I chose not to pursue Northwest - I will end up at Delta (class date next month) but here's what I was worried about with Northwest:
* First year pay is low - really low. Their payscale is low as well, and I would of always made more money in career earnings at my current job than NWA. It is low enough that it would of required a significent shift in my family's lifestyle for probably 5+ years - I want to enjoy life, not wait for every year's pay raise.
* I believe that the DC-9s are going to be retired and basically replaced by regional flying - Mesaba, Pinnacle and Compass - eventually. It may not be this 2008, but all signs indicate it will happen. That means career stagnation.
* Northwest's customer service is weak and the brand is not good. I can't see people choosing NWA when they have a choice, so I think this will hurt them when LCCs like Jetblue come into their markets.
* Age 65 rule will impact upgrades a lot at NWA when it happens, while it will have a much lesser effect at Delta. I can't see sitting at those FO payrates at NWA five years more than the FOs do now.
* It now appears that their cargo business is weak. That's been generating profits for a while. If Northwest isn't smart enough to put money into their cargo fleet, then I shudder to think that the future holds for everything else.
In the end, I think that Northwest will be bought by someone who wants their Asia routes. I think a Delta-NWA merger is a serious possibility, but American also might like their Asia routes. It's a gamble going to Delta, but I really won't know if I made a good choice until I retire.
* First year pay is low - really low. Their payscale is low as well, and I would of always made more money in career earnings at my current job than NWA. It is low enough that it would of required a significent shift in my family's lifestyle for probably 5+ years - I want to enjoy life, not wait for every year's pay raise.
* I believe that the DC-9s are going to be retired and basically replaced by regional flying - Mesaba, Pinnacle and Compass - eventually. It may not be this 2008, but all signs indicate it will happen. That means career stagnation.
* Northwest's customer service is weak and the brand is not good. I can't see people choosing NWA when they have a choice, so I think this will hurt them when LCCs like Jetblue come into their markets.
* Age 65 rule will impact upgrades a lot at NWA when it happens, while it will have a much lesser effect at Delta. I can't see sitting at those FO payrates at NWA five years more than the FOs do now.
* It now appears that their cargo business is weak. That's been generating profits for a while. If Northwest isn't smart enough to put money into their cargo fleet, then I shudder to think that the future holds for everything else.
In the end, I think that Northwest will be bought by someone who wants their Asia routes. I think a Delta-NWA merger is a serious possibility, but American also might like their Asia routes. It's a gamble going to Delta, but I really won't know if I made a good choice until I retire.
12-10-2007, 04:25 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by contrails
But was that an answer to the question?
In a separate thread starter, supply a list of what is secure.
* * *
In a separate thread starter, supply a list of what is secure.
The regional airline sector would provide someone with a secure future especially when they get the larger ( 90-100 ) seat RJs.
12-10-2007, 04:29 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
Originally Posted by FlyByCable
The regional airline sector would provide someone with a secure future especially when they get the larger ( 90-100 ) seat RJs.
12-10-2007, 05:36 PM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Stuck in the north!
Posts: 75
FreightGuy,
FWIW, I was hired by NWA in Jan 2001 and then let go for about 6 years. I only worked there for a few short months but it was nothing like Delta. I interviewed at Delta this past August and started class in October. Delta treats there people with a lot more respect than NWA. Maby I am still drinking the kool-aid from Delta, but they seem to care. From the interview to OE, there has not been one person who did not go above and beyond to help me.
BFS
FWIW, I was hired by NWA in Jan 2001 and then let go for about 6 years. I only worked there for a few short months but it was nothing like Delta. I interviewed at Delta this past August and started class in October. Delta treats there people with a lot more respect than NWA. Maby I am still drinking the kool-aid from Delta, but they seem to care. From the interview to OE, there has not been one person who did not go above and beyond to help me.
BFS
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