SkyHigh

In fact I have done the cat3 approach into SEA. I was an airline pilot. I am not saying that there are not a few brief moments where some attention is required. However we all know that 98% of the time you are sitting there trying hard not to slip into a boredom induced coma. You guys should be apologizing for how good you have it instead of trying to project yourself as steely eyed professionals. From 1000' after rotation to 500 feet before touchdown the plane is on auto pilot. Just last week a local night piston twin crashed during an approach to below minimums in an old piper seneca. The pilot was 48 years old and worked in the summer as an airshow pilot. Sometimes your comments make me think that guys like you have never had a real flying job if you think that piloting a modern jet is difficult. If you had you would realise that you have got it pretty good.

SkyHigh

calcapt

Guess we and the flying public can all be grateful for "was" rather than "is"

LAfrequentflyer

Guess we and the flying public can all be grateful for "was" rather than "is"



Speak for yourself...

V/r,
LA

RedeyeAV8r

SkyHigh I guess one would have to ask why you are not still an airline pilot.
Maybe you were the victim of a Furlough or downsizing. Or maybe you were the victom of shutdown bankrupt carrier. Maybe a medical proble,

In any case If leaving the profession was not your choice, I am truly sorry.
But you sound very bitter to me and maybe a little jealous of others who are still fortunate enough to be in the profession.

You seem to harbor a hatred of a bunch of fellow aviators passing stories and views back and forth on a silly message board. You spend an inordinate amount of time.

One word of advice..............get over the bitterness you harbor towards me and my fellow professional aviators. Do us all a favor. Get a hobby. Take up fishing or go volunteer at your local literacy council and teach people how to read. Just get over the bitterness............it will eat you alive.

Good bye Skyhigh. I wish you the best of luck

Redeye

SkyHigh

I don't harbor any bitterness towards you or anyone else for that matter. I am disappointed with the profession and try to spread the word on to others. I believe that the odds of a new pilot reaching a career objective of the major airlines is one in 20. Most who get crushed by this industry fade away and never speak out.

In answer to your questions I spent 20 years in pursuit of an airline career. My last real job shut down three years ago. My wife and I have a family of four small sons. At this point in my life it is impossible to return to aviation on such low wages and horrid working conditions.

I believe that there are two worlds in aviation the first is comprised of airline legacy children and military superstars and the other is filled with the grist for the mill. Occasionally a few are able to jump to the other side but most are lost before they turn their first prop.

Young pilot hopefuls come on to these forums and seek advice. If they only have your side of the story then they are ill informed.

Especially you MD-11 Captains. When was the last time you had to look for a job? How long has it been since you flew a real airplane for pay? You guys are so out of touch that you have no business posting any opinions on what it is like out on the streets today. To you life is great and we are all a bunch of complainers.


SKyHigh

RedeyeAV8r

Especially you MD-11 Captains. When was the last time you had to look for a job? How long has it been since you flew a real airplane for pay? You guys are so out of touch that you have no business posting any opinions on what it is like out on the streets today. To you life is great and we are all a bunch of complainers.


SKyHigh[/QUOTE]

In the words of the Departed Ronald Reagan "There you go again"

I am on my 3rd Airline.........1 ain't around anymore and the other ain't doing so well......................What is real Air Plane?

An F-4, F-18 A-4, F-5...........A DC-9 and B 737 200, 300, 400, 500, B-727
Md-80 BAE-146, F-28 DC-10, Md-11?
C170, C-180, DC-3, D-18 ..............Yeah I have flown a few airplains, done the Bankruptcy liquidation thing, done the merger thing, done the furlough thing and now I am where I am. Lucky I guess so but I thought I was lucky 14 years ago with someone else..............didn't work out so I got myself together and started over for the 3rd ( and hopefully last time).

Seems to me like you are the one with a sense of entitlement................You are apparently the only one who has lost an airline job. There are no other Professional Airline Pilots who have been negatively affected..................Just you.

Cut the "Woe is me crap" Sonny boy. If you want to make the airlines a career get off you a$$, get the chip off your shoulder and get out there.
It is tough, I'll grant you. Others are giving it there all and I wish them good luck..............even you.

You complain you can't afford to start over because of low pay yet in the same breath you attack us (especially MD-11Caps) for being over paid................................. If we made less how would that help you?

Get help Son............with that attitude you will be lucky to keep your family, let alone find a decent airline job, Any job for that matter.

I still don't get your point. You are the one harboring Jealousy and resorting to name calling. I am sorry for your mis-fortune in this carrer. You seem to be the one whose is doing the most complaining..................................

Maybe Dr. Phil can help

SkyHigh

In the words of the Departed Ronald Reagan "There you go again"

I am on my 3rd Airline.........1 ain't around anymore and the other ain't doing so well......................What is real Air Plane?

An F-4, F-18 A-4, F-5...........A DC-9 and B 737 200, 300, 400, 500, B-727
Md-80 BAE-146, F-28 DC-10, Md-11?
C170, C-180, DC-3, D-18 ..............Yeah I have flown a few airplains, done the Bankruptcy liquidation thing, done the merger thing, done the furlough thing and now I am where I am. Lucky I guess so but I thought I was lucky 14 years ago with someone else..............didn't work out so I got myself together and started over for the 3rd ( and hopefully last time).

Seems to me like you are the one with a sense of entitlement................You are apparently the only one who has lost an airline job. There are no other Professional Airline Pilots who have been negatively affected..................Just you.

Cut the "Woe is me crap" Sonny boy. If you want to make the airlines a career get off you a$$, get the chip off your shoulder and get out there.
It is tough, I'll grant you. Others are giving it there all and I wish them good luck..............even you.

You complain you can't afford to start over because of low pay yet in the same breath you attack us (especially MD-11Caps) for being over paid................................. If we made less how would that help you?

Get help Son............with that attitude you will be lucky to keep your family, let alone find a decent airline job, Any job for that matter.

I still don't get your point. You are the one harboring Jealousy and resorting to name calling. I am sorry for your mis-fortune in this carrer. You seem to be the one whose is doing the most complaining..................................

Maybe Dr. Phil can help[/QUOTE]

Man,

I would not say that I have a sense of entitlement, but I do think that my efforts are worthy of signing the blues a little. I'll concede that you have done your share of suffering too however I would bet that you earned a livable wage throughout your career. I wouldn't say that I am out yet but it seems that there needs to be a point where we all need to pull the plug while there is still some quality of life left to salvage. I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I just like to call it how I see it and I don't have any rose colored glasses.

My question to you is how much is enough? If you have been through that many employers and job situations when do you call it quits? I sat next to plenty of crusty old timers who at 59 only had a 20 year old corvette and a two bedroom apartment sparsely appointed as the results of a lifetime of working as a pilot.

I attack the High Paid major airline captains because it is a case of the haves VS the have nots. No matter how hard we all try there is only so much space at the top. The rest will enjoy a career of long days and mediocre to poor pay. The system is unbalanced.

In conclusion, I am not the only one to have lost an airline job. If my opinions were based solely upon my experiences I would not have such a strong opinions. However, I have watched as my peer group has been cut to shreds or left behind at some pathetic position for fear of the unknown. As for my family I have set aside my own needs for their happiness. I don't know anything about you or your life but that kind of ruthless pursuit of a career has to have caused some casualties. Success comes at a price and for me at least it is too high.

SkyHigh

dckozak

Like a lot of what you say, there is an element of truth in it. It isn't fair that "connections" are nessary to get a good job, and I do agree, the military guys seem to network better than civilians, still........

...........Your message is so negative and so demoralising that any prospective aviator doesn't see the glass half empty, there is no glass at all!

Complainers! You got to be kidding. We're the ones defending the industry, and all (that was/is good about it) while you demean the profession, the skill's necessary, the prospect of earning a fair wage, and the any and all aspects related to, what is, to many of us, the best job in the world. If we do complain, its not suggesting that we hoodwinked our employer's for years and now are reaping what (we deserve) and long for the good old days. We are defending what we believe is a loss of prestige and pay in an industry that desires better. I would hope, had I not gotten to where I am today, I wouldn't fell it necessary to publicly (or internally) degrade the profession you attempted to but failed to achieve at.

As far as giving advice on this or any other thread, re: employment, I think if you read most poster's more carefully you'd see very little advise regarding how to gain employment, just defense of this profession.

Tuff

I just caught UA 232 on National Geographic tonight.
To those who continue to say that there is no attention and no thought required (Skyhigh); NO computer, engineer, or autopilot could have saved the 196 people that did survive. It was thinking, judgement and human factor that saved more than half of those passengers from perile. Its the "that can't happen" event that keeps the pilots in the cockpit.
They are testing programs that will attempt to fly the aircraft by only manipulating the power levers. Another fix. There will be another "that can't happen" and the lives of those passengers will have a better chance of survival in the hands of a pilot on board, not an autopilot saying "AP Disconnect" or a computer saying "Error".

SkyHigh

dckozak,

I like you and appreciate every reply. I bear no malice to anyone else on this forum and feel friendship to all. From your vantage point you cant see what is coming. The world has changed much since the early 80's. the current generation of push button miracles are reaching the left seat of regional jets with a lot of hollow flight time and no real experience. The airlines can afford to do this since modern planes are simple to operate for a computerised world. Procedures, emergency drills have helped to erase much of the rest of the hazards to a point where all one needs is the ability to regurgitate a procedure on demand. To me the modern airline pilot is less of a thinking pilot as in past years and more of a programmable human. This latest generation is prepared to accept much less in pay and are braced for miserable working conditions. In my 20 year career I only broke the 40K barrier one time and that was near the end. It seems that only the cargo layer still maintains the attitudes and opinions of days gone by since so far they have been insulated from the carnage. UAL DAL and the rest of the Pax operators rarely raise up to spout the old order. They have been beaten into submission like the rest of us. I feel that as a pilot group we need to break the old image of aviation as a masterful and status filled profession. We should paint it is it truly is in order to stem the tide of budding newbies. Our value shouldn't rest in our bloated demanding egos but instead for enduring what is truly a difficult job that keeps us away from home too much. Every time a DC-10 Captain in a swelled up uniform jacket and hat stands in front of a student body and professes what a great career it is not only is spreading false information but launches a hundred more ill fated LCC careers. Change is coming to every corner of aviation. Current events are not just the results of a pendulum swing but are evidence of a permanent shift in our industry. When I started out as a pilot my reasons were because I loved aviation and wanted to enjoy a better quality of life than most. Back then it was worth all the sacrifices. Today as I stare out into the abyss all I can see is a life of unending pain and sacrifice. My generation has never been able to make a living at it let alone a life. If I were you I would keep my focus towards retirement day and not bother myself with such topics.

Someday you guys should wise up organise and start selling your recommendations. I would imagine that you could get $5000 for every solid recommendation that results in an interview and 25,000 to $50,000 if it leads to a job offer.

SkyHigh