CAL Update
04-12-2008, 03:38 PM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: CAL - Furloughed
Posts: 12
CAL Update
Looking for info on CAL -- and I apologize in advance for the broad/crystal ball questions. I am a new hire looking for info . . .
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?
How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
If DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions.
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?
How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
If DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions.
04-13-2008, 07:30 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 880
Hope this helps
Hokie,
I will try a stab at this....but my experience will be different than yours based on hiring stopping and/or when it starts again. It seems that about every 4 months or so, things change in this industry.
I will try a stab at this....but my experience will be different than yours based on hiring stopping and/or when it starts again. It seems that about every 4 months or so, things change in this industry.
Originally Posted by hokiefan
Looking for info on CAL -- and I apologize in advance for the broad/crystal ball questions. I am a new hire looking for info . . .
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?
You will go to EWR hands down. It took my 2 months to get to IAH after EWR. It was offered to me out of training. We were one of the last classes that they did this with in Nov. Classes behind me still got to IAH about the same time due to the system bid that came out in Jan. Next system bid is June. CLE is really senior and I hear about 1 year or more.
How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
The hiring will resume in late fall if we don't merge, gas prices come down by the summer's end, and we still take delivery of planes. CAL has 3 billion in cash reserves but they do not want to touch this at all. The focus was on the next contract but the merger stuff may jump back from the back burner to the front plate. Furloughs may happen if oil never stops climbing and a lot of people stop flying. When this happens, everyone will be hurting in the industry.
What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
I did the 2 leg commute to EWR and it was not bad but not fun either. What really ends up happening is that you will commute up the day before and go home the day after. You are expected to give yourself about 2 or 3 trips to get to work. Depending on where you live, you may learn of how to jumpseat on other carriers or go different routes to avoid the masses at IAH or CLE going to EWR.
If DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
I would expect it to be on the coat tails of DL/NW. Too much to speculate about right now. Half the stuff on these boards are wrong or not worth the rhetoric. Just like my opinion, take it all with a grain of salt.
Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
You will be able to bid for how you want your reserve schedule to look like and when you want them to begin. You could have 6 on 2 off or 4 on 4 off but not for the whole the month. You can request to have certain reserve days start on call at certain times but skds can change this on you. I bid 4 day blocks and start around 8-10 am. It works for me to have 2 flights to catch before my time starts. However I, almost all the time, pick up a trip to cover my reserve days so I don't sit in a crashpad or hotel. I would rather fly.
I was there not long ago and empathize with you. I was prior military so I was clueless on a lot of this stuff. PM me if you have further questions and welcome aboard. Depsite what you read sometimes, it is a great place to work.
Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions.
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?
You will go to EWR hands down. It took my 2 months to get to IAH after EWR. It was offered to me out of training. We were one of the last classes that they did this with in Nov. Classes behind me still got to IAH about the same time due to the system bid that came out in Jan. Next system bid is June. CLE is really senior and I hear about 1 year or more.
How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
The hiring will resume in late fall if we don't merge, gas prices come down by the summer's end, and we still take delivery of planes. CAL has 3 billion in cash reserves but they do not want to touch this at all. The focus was on the next contract but the merger stuff may jump back from the back burner to the front plate. Furloughs may happen if oil never stops climbing and a lot of people stop flying. When this happens, everyone will be hurting in the industry.
What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
I did the 2 leg commute to EWR and it was not bad but not fun either. What really ends up happening is that you will commute up the day before and go home the day after. You are expected to give yourself about 2 or 3 trips to get to work. Depending on where you live, you may learn of how to jumpseat on other carriers or go different routes to avoid the masses at IAH or CLE going to EWR.
If DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
I would expect it to be on the coat tails of DL/NW. Too much to speculate about right now. Half the stuff on these boards are wrong or not worth the rhetoric. Just like my opinion, take it all with a grain of salt.
Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
You will be able to bid for how you want your reserve schedule to look like and when you want them to begin. You could have 6 on 2 off or 4 on 4 off but not for the whole the month. You can request to have certain reserve days start on call at certain times but skds can change this on you. I bid 4 day blocks and start around 8-10 am. It works for me to have 2 flights to catch before my time starts. However I, almost all the time, pick up a trip to cover my reserve days so I don't sit in a crashpad or hotel. I would rather fly.
I was there not long ago and empathize with you. I was prior military so I was clueless on a lot of this stuff. PM me if you have further questions and welcome aboard. Depsite what you read sometimes, it is a great place to work.
Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions.
04-13-2008, 05:55 PM
#4
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: CAL - Furloughed
Posts: 12
Flybynuts -- thanks -- this was great info and I appreciate the time considering the broad range of subject matter.
Is it fair to assume that a lot of the commuting and reserve policies will be explained in training?
I am one of the lucky ones who made it into the last classes but I also have a cross-country family move to schedule/consider in the summertime (not to mention the wonder if I will be on reserve forever or fourloughed should the mergers happen or fuel prices fail to wind down).
Is it fair to assume that a lot of the commuting and reserve policies will be explained in training?
I am one of the lucky ones who made it into the last classes but I also have a cross-country family move to schedule/consider in the summertime (not to mention the wonder if I will be on reserve forever or fourloughed should the mergers happen or fuel prices fail to wind down).
04-13-2008, 08:01 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]Looking for info on CAL -- and I apologize in advance for the broad/crystal ball questions. I am a new hire looking for info . . .
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?/QUOTE]
--- From what I see, the most junior IAH 737 FO is about 100 people up from the bottom of the senority list, so it's not all that senior to get into IAH. I'm not sure how long you could expect to be on reserve - typically EWR has the shorter time on reserve because of the # of new hires.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
--- Your guess is as good as anyone else's. I've heard rumors, anything from starting hiring again this fall to next spring. If we merge, my uneducated and highly speculative guess is that we won't see new hires for a long, long, long time.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
---I'm not sure, I haven't really researched this. So far in training, we need 1 backup, but we're also given positive space transportation back to training. Some advice that was given to me: your default should be to live in your domicile unless you have some sort of reason making it impossible to live in domicile. I don't think you'll find anyone recommending a 2 leg commute, especially during your first year. But... I'm not sure what the contract says.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
--- This is another good question for the magic 8 ball.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
--- I don't know yet, I'm still in training. You're guaranteed 12 days off per month - 4 of those days are "immovable" and 8 are "movable." It's not unheard of for scheduling to call you and move your off days to fill the schedule.
--- The month prior, you can bid your reserve days. I haven't done it yet so someone with more experience please chime in. My understanding is once the schedule comes out, you can trade reserve days to make your schedule more commutable - i.e. if you have 2 days of reserve, then 2 days off, then 2 more days of reserve, you might be able to trade your off days with someone else to give you a 4 day reserve block.
--- Short call reserve is 3 hours from notification to pushback and you get paid 76 hours per month. Most reserve is short call (about 75%+). While on short call, you are assigned a 15 hour window and during this time, you are essentially considered "on duty." So if you get called at the 12 hour point, you can only fly a short trip.
--- Long call reserve is 9 hours from notification to pushback and you get paid 72 hours per month. You are available 24 hours per day. Essentially, when the schedulers call you, they give you the minimum 8 hours of crew rest and then you start your 16 hour day.
--- The day prior to assuming reserve duties, the Long Call guys can shop for trips and pick up any open time trips that coincide with their reserve days. A few hours later, the Short Call guys can do the same. At 1500 the day prior to sitting reserve, you'll get assigned your 15 hour duty window.
--- Depending on your commute, sitting long call might not be possible, so it seems that more commuters actually bid short call. The worst case scenario is sitting at home and getting a 7 or 8 PM call from scheduling that notifies you of a 6 AM show time the next morning. If scheduling calls you after the last flight leaves your home for your domicile, you're pretty much screwed.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions
Hope all of this info helps!
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?/QUOTE]
--- From what I see, the most junior IAH 737 FO is about 100 people up from the bottom of the senority list, so it's not all that senior to get into IAH. I'm not sure how long you could expect to be on reserve - typically EWR has the shorter time on reserve because of the # of new hires.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
--- Your guess is as good as anyone else's. I've heard rumors, anything from starting hiring again this fall to next spring. If we merge, my uneducated and highly speculative guess is that we won't see new hires for a long, long, long time.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
---I'm not sure, I haven't really researched this. So far in training, we need 1 backup, but we're also given positive space transportation back to training. Some advice that was given to me: your default should be to live in your domicile unless you have some sort of reason making it impossible to live in domicile. I don't think you'll find anyone recommending a 2 leg commute, especially during your first year. But... I'm not sure what the contract says.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
--- This is another good question for the magic 8 ball.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
--- I don't know yet, I'm still in training. You're guaranteed 12 days off per month - 4 of those days are "immovable" and 8 are "movable." It's not unheard of for scheduling to call you and move your off days to fill the schedule.
--- The month prior, you can bid your reserve days. I haven't done it yet so someone with more experience please chime in. My understanding is once the schedule comes out, you can trade reserve days to make your schedule more commutable - i.e. if you have 2 days of reserve, then 2 days off, then 2 more days of reserve, you might be able to trade your off days with someone else to give you a 4 day reserve block.
--- Short call reserve is 3 hours from notification to pushback and you get paid 76 hours per month. Most reserve is short call (about 75%+). While on short call, you are assigned a 15 hour window and during this time, you are essentially considered "on duty." So if you get called at the 12 hour point, you can only fly a short trip.
--- Long call reserve is 9 hours from notification to pushback and you get paid 72 hours per month. You are available 24 hours per day. Essentially, when the schedulers call you, they give you the minimum 8 hours of crew rest and then you start your 16 hour day.
--- The day prior to assuming reserve duties, the Long Call guys can shop for trips and pick up any open time trips that coincide with their reserve days. A few hours later, the Short Call guys can do the same. At 1500 the day prior to sitting reserve, you'll get assigned your 15 hour duty window.
--- Depending on your commute, sitting long call might not be possible, so it seems that more commuters actually bid short call. The worst case scenario is sitting at home and getting a 7 or 8 PM call from scheduling that notifies you of a 6 AM show time the next morning. If scheduling calls you after the last flight leaves your home for your domicile, you're pretty much screwed.
[QUOTE=hokiefan;362217]Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions
Hope all of this info helps!
04-14-2008, 07:57 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Boeing
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by hokiefan
Looking for info on CAL -- and I apologize in advance for the broad/crystal ball questions. I am a new hire looking for info . . .
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?
How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
If DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions.
EWR is the first place new hires go but what is the timeline to get to IAH? What about CLE?
How quickly will CAL be in a position to hire again? Is the airline posturing for contract negotiations or is CAL really that strapped that furloughs will become a reality?
What is required to commute (i.e. how should a guy plan to commute . . . 1 back-up, 2, 3?). What if there is a double commute (i.e. a connection in CLE is required to make it to EWR)? Does the pilot need to plan for multiple back-ups for each leg?
If DAL/NWA occurs, how far behind will the CAL/UAL merger follow? Will that affect the bases (i.e. would they close CLE and go solely out of ORD)?
Finally, what does an average month of reserve look like? In other words, is it 4 days on, three days off or is it more unpredictable? What times during the day do the reserve slots begin (i.e. can a pilot commute in the same day as the reserve begins)?
Again, apologize for the broad-based/crystal ball type questions but this will help with some upcoming decisions.
Seems you will see something in the coming weeks with regard to this rumored reduction bid. At that point I think it totally depends on how COLA's are offered, early outs, etc. It doesn't seem to be posturing. What is there to posture at this point? I think the combo of no retirements (vs planned 200 ish next year) and now the price of oil have made CAL scale back some flying for next fall (my guess). Sound business decision it seems but bad for us new pilots hired with the expectation of some senority movement. You'll know more when something is announced.
Where do you commute to/from? Going to reserve in EWR from most places will usually require you coming in the day prior. As a reserve at CAL you will have very little control over your life as there are few reserve rules to protect you. When it comes to duty time and rest all you have are the FAR's. You will get 12 days off, 8 of which you can count on. The other 4 can and will be shuffled the day prior. Being junior anywhere is no fun but with the CAL contract it is quite bad for a commuter. Living in base would make it much much nicer as you just wouldn't care about the shuffling of your rest and schedule. Hope for the best amigos.
04-14-2008, 10:53 AM
#7
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: CAL - Furloughed
Posts: 12
Riddler/Southbound -
This is all great info and advice. I deeply appreciate it.
I know some of the questions were asking to decode the magic 8ball . . . I guess that is some anxiousness about being a long term bottom feeder showing through.
The stuff about reserve and commuting was excellent and very useful. Thanks again --
This is all great info and advice. I deeply appreciate it.
I know some of the questions were asking to decode the magic 8ball . . . I guess that is some anxiousness about being a long term bottom feeder showing through.
The stuff about reserve and commuting was excellent and very useful. Thanks again --
04-14-2008, 02:45 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: 18%er but I’ll enforce UPA23 to the last period.
Posts: 439
Reserves get 8 immovable and 4 movable days off. Just to correct an earlier mistake. the immovable days are bid in 2 blocks of at least 2 days so the combos are (2/6, 3/5, 4/4). the movable also have to be at least 2 days but can usually be all together or in two blocks of 2
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