Jet Blue Pay Raise
07-03-2008, 01:15 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 531
Greedy,
You have some very good points that I am willing to listen to. Please keep the information flow going, so we can all make an informed decision. If you have not figured it out, I have been here a long time and I want to see this pilot group and this company be successful, I just don't want a few bad apples making decisions that may jeopardize my long term future at this company. I know pay and other issues will improve over time, just convince me this is the RIGHT TIME.
Take Care
You have some very good points that I am willing to listen to. Please keep the information flow going, so we can all make an informed decision. If you have not figured it out, I have been here a long time and I want to see this pilot group and this company be successful, I just don't want a few bad apples making decisions that may jeopardize my long term future at this company. I know pay and other issues will improve over time, just convince me this is the RIGHT TIME.
Take Care
07-03-2008, 02:06 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: A320
Posts: 406
CR, thank you for being willing to listen to both sides of the debate .
please go to our site so you can see for yourself and also ask all the qustions you have there, that way you can get the official response on a non annonymous forum. everyone is pre-register at Welcome so no one can tell if you have log in or not. if you are very senior or a check airman and are concerned about company retaliation I can ask the questions on the public forum there for you (our forum is not annonymous, pm me here and I can ask them there).
you can also see the video presentation with the SWAPA president, the CAPA president and or legal counsel, as well as read our interim constitution and our FAQ.
you will get more info there than here.
while I have no problem discussing any questions about JBPA you or others have here, I do believe you will benefit more from the other site.
I do belive now is the right time to organize becasue I still believe our current leadership does want to run an airline and they do care about offering a supperior product.organizing when things are not bad is a faster and better way to secure the spirit of cooperation for future manement teams and to potect our careers.I have 33 years left but this is my 4th airline and I would like it to be my last just a much as you do. please join us on Welcome so you can keep aking any question you might have and can get a real official answer with names attachd to it.
as far as the few bad apples running the show inthe future our constitution will make that very unlikely, since our BOD is made up of seniority reps,domicile reps and national officers with term limits and elections staggered every year for 2 year temrs. so all JB pilots would have to vote and not recall bad apples for 2 years on a row for that scenario to occur ( impossible ?no, but if that happens it is because us JB pilots have lost all faith is present and future managemnt. and have all turned in to radicals...)
take care
please go to our site so you can see for yourself and also ask all the qustions you have there, that way you can get the official response on a non annonymous forum. everyone is pre-register at Welcome so no one can tell if you have log in or not. if you are very senior or a check airman and are concerned about company retaliation I can ask the questions on the public forum there for you (our forum is not annonymous, pm me here and I can ask them there).
you can also see the video presentation with the SWAPA president, the CAPA president and or legal counsel, as well as read our interim constitution and our FAQ.
you will get more info there than here.
while I have no problem discussing any questions about JBPA you or others have here, I do believe you will benefit more from the other site.
I do belive now is the right time to organize becasue I still believe our current leadership does want to run an airline and they do care about offering a supperior product.organizing when things are not bad is a faster and better way to secure the spirit of cooperation for future manement teams and to potect our careers.I have 33 years left but this is my 4th airline and I would like it to be my last just a much as you do. please join us on Welcome so you can keep aking any question you might have and can get a real official answer with names attachd to it.
as far as the few bad apples running the show inthe future our constitution will make that very unlikely, since our BOD is made up of seniority reps,domicile reps and national officers with term limits and elections staggered every year for 2 year temrs. so all JB pilots would have to vote and not recall bad apples for 2 years on a row for that scenario to occur ( impossible ?no, but if that happens it is because us JB pilots have lost all faith is present and future managemnt. and have all turned in to radicals...)
take care
07-03-2008, 02:13 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by Clear Right
Greedy and D8,
I have got to say I have HAD IT....Let me start out by saying, I sent my card in and I donated money to the JBPA, but evey day I hear some of the rediculous comments coming out of some of the hard liner's mouths pushes me back to a NO VOTE. You need to reign in some of the Hard Liner's.
I actually have heard Senior Guys on the line say "we need to Furlough at JetBlue" because they have gotten no pay raise and their productivity is going down.
I actually am hearing JUNIOR E-190 Captains who just got an Industry Leading pay raise on their aircraft complain that they deserve SEAT PAY. You have got to be kidding me. These are guys 600 numbers junior to me, and 10 years younger than me at their first Major Airline job, complaining that they deserve what our A320 Captains are making. They should be doing cartwheels because of their raise and the fact that we don't have furloughs.
I know it is not all about PAY, but man you better get some of the Hard Liner's in Line and get them to HUMBLE themselves during a very turbulent time in this industry. LOOK AROUND everybody is loosing their jobs and loosing pay, and you just got a pay raise...MY GOD MAN be humble and be appreciative. Walk quietly and carry a big stick and convince me with facts why we need JBPA, but don't rant about how under paid we are, when you are doing just fine, by these industry standards and at this time in this industry. When the Airline is making Millions Hand Over Fist, then I will demand an equal share, but we will probably lose money and we all just got a pay raise. How come some people can't just be happy.....
Bottom LINE, the JBPA guys need to HUMBLE some of the hard-liner's and give a better argument other than pay, or you are going to see my vote go BYE...BYE...
Take Care
I have got to say I have HAD IT....Let me start out by saying, I sent my card in and I donated money to the JBPA, but evey day I hear some of the rediculous comments coming out of some of the hard liner's mouths pushes me back to a NO VOTE. You need to reign in some of the Hard Liner's.
I actually have heard Senior Guys on the line say "we need to Furlough at JetBlue" because they have gotten no pay raise and their productivity is going down.
I actually am hearing JUNIOR E-190 Captains who just got an Industry Leading pay raise on their aircraft complain that they deserve SEAT PAY. You have got to be kidding me. These are guys 600 numbers junior to me, and 10 years younger than me at their first Major Airline job, complaining that they deserve what our A320 Captains are making. They should be doing cartwheels because of their raise and the fact that we don't have furloughs.
I know it is not all about PAY, but man you better get some of the Hard Liner's in Line and get them to HUMBLE themselves during a very turbulent time in this industry. LOOK AROUND everybody is loosing their jobs and loosing pay, and you just got a pay raise...MY GOD MAN be humble and be appreciative. Walk quietly and carry a big stick and convince me with facts why we need JBPA, but don't rant about how under paid we are, when you are doing just fine, by these industry standards and at this time in this industry. When the Airline is making Millions Hand Over Fist, then I will demand an equal share, but we will probably lose money and we all just got a pay raise. How come some people can't just be happy.....
Bottom LINE, the JBPA guys need to HUMBLE some of the hard-liner's and give a better argument other than pay, or you are going to see my vote go BYE...BYE...
Take Care
07-03-2008, 02:59 PM
#54
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: E190 FO
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by quimby
what does that have to do with anything?
That and the fact the statement is wrong. We have a huge number of Captains in the 190 that came here from many other airlines. I have flown with most of the BOS 190 pilots and all have come from flying larger airplanes, some even bigger than our precious Airbus.
Its not about where you came from, its about where you are. The outcome of JetBlue will be the same if we organize or not. The only thing that matters is the business plan, if it is doomed to fail, then we will fail...pilot salaries and benefits have never bankrupted an airline. The company knows that we have a large group of pilots who are in fear of losing their jobs, and they will use that fear as an excuse to wreak havok on our work rules under the guise of "saving jobs".
09-06-2008, 11:35 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: A320
Posts: 406
Originally Posted by WaterBoarder
So you worked for at least two other airlines before you came to JetBlue.
Knowing that JetBlue is a non union airline did not stop you from applying.
Did you disclose your union experience or were you really quiet about that
during the interview? You sneaked in and now want to change it form the inside.
If your previous union work was so fundamental why did you leave those airlines?
If you got furloughed, the furlough protection in your previous contract did not work that well, did it?
If you got fired, the job security you helped to negotiate did not work very well either, did it?
If you quit because you saw a better life on the Blue side, you are the typical hypocrite
who comes here, enjoys all the advantages and starts rocking the boat. We don’t need or want a union. Other [unionized] airlines can only dream about the speed our Leadership responded to the PCRB recommendations giving us a pay raise and better benefits and job security in a time when other airlines are announcing a new round of furloughs. We can change/improve anything we want here at JetBlue.
Knowing that JetBlue is a non union airline did not stop you from applying.
Did you disclose your union experience or were you really quiet about that
during the interview? You sneaked in and now want to change it form the inside.
If your previous union work was so fundamental why did you leave those airlines?
If you got furloughed, the furlough protection in your previous contract did not work that well, did it?
If you got fired, the job security you helped to negotiate did not work very well either, did it?
If you quit because you saw a better life on the Blue side, you are the typical hypocrite
who comes here, enjoys all the advantages and starts rocking the boat. We don’t need or want a union. Other [unionized] airlines can only dream about the speed our Leadership responded to the PCRB recommendations giving us a pay raise and better benefits and job security in a time when other airlines are announcing a new round of furloughs. We can change/improve anything we want here at JetBlue.
I quit my last gig becasue I saw a faster upgrade at JB and a non confrontational management style that, when unionized ,had the potential of being a career airline.
If you think "we can improve anything @ JB you are obviously clueless about discrimination laws and labor laws in this country.You are also clueless about OJI insurance, LTD/LOL insurance, Scope,Retirement and health insurance.
let me explain ,once again ,what some issues are:
we do not have OJI insurance. we have a joke that will give you up to $500/week if you get hurt working while @ JB. You cannot use VSTD and you cannot use LOL/LTD. every other airline gives you minimum guarantee while on OJI becasue they have a separate plan for pilots. with no cba there is no separate plan.
We do not have LOL insurance. the company keep lying about it. after the LGB town hall meeting and a lot of pressure form JBPA volunteers asking the same questions at every town hall meeting before, they finally admitted we have an LTD insurance, not LOL. LTD covers every employee, and ,sadly,excludes the majority of the conditions that will cause you ,a pilot,to loose your medical. If you cannot work as a JB pilot you better find another line of work if oyu want to keep your house.
You don't believe me? ask the LGB guys. tell them to tell you about our captain there who is sick,lost his medical and now has lost his savings,retirement and home becasue he was excluded form our fake"LOL".
Our retirement fails every year the ERISA test. It cost almost 2 mill to fix last year. it falls outside out PEA and it is bundled.the company can, and will, cap contributions in the future to stop form paying extra.
our wages are subpar. event they admitted it, and the 81 hour magic math to blend rate is actually 85 to make is closer to "average". and we are still bellow standard with the 85.
we have no scope.do you trust chew? read his bio.
Lots of otehr issues. read the PCRB report.
please inform yourself.
believe me, if JB was an island and our low compensation,benefits and non existent work rules would not affect every other narrow body pilot group negotiating an cba I would leave. as it stands, If I leave, wherever I go, I'm going to have my new management throw JB's subpar "contract" for 2,000 pilots at me, and that will affect me and evey other narrow body pilot group in the US. I'm not willing to do that.I will make sure this pilot group gets unionized and we get a good contract to raise the bar, not lower it, everyday.
being unionized and asking to improve our lives is not being anti JB.
asking for income security (insurance) for our families is not anti JB.
asking for job security is not being anti JB
asking for a decent middle class life is not being anit JB.
you can negotiate hard and aggressively and still love JB.
being selfish like you are and saying "I got mine F you all" is being anti JB and flies on the face of our caring value, wich is one of reasons I join JB. JB's management has ignored it for too long.now it's time to help them find it again.
learn to care about others, life is not about you only.
09-06-2008, 02:55 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by greedyairlineexec
First of all, what does it matter that JB is union or not to apply? If I would have been asked about my union experience at the interview I would have answered, but those questions, just like asking if you smoke or have kids, are illegal to ask.
I quit my last gig becasue I saw a faster upgrade at JB and a non confrontational management style that, when unionized ,had the potential of being a career airline.
If you think "we can improve anything @ JB you are obviously clueless about discrimination laws and labor laws in this country.You are also clueless about OJI insurance, LTD/LOL insurance, Scope,Retirement and health insurance.
let me explain ,once again ,what some issues are:
we do not have OJI insurance. we have a joke that will give you up to $500/week if you get hurt working while @ JB. You cannot use VSTD and you cannot use LOL/LTD. every other airline gives you minimum guarantee while on OJI becasue they have a separate plan for pilots. with no cba there is no separate plan.
We do not have LOL insurance. the company keep lying about it. after the LGB town hall meeting and a lot of pressure form JBPA volunteers asking the same questions at every town hall meeting before, they finally admitted we have an LTD insurance, not LOL. LTD covers every employee, and ,sadly,excludes the majority of the conditions that will cause you ,a pilot,to loose your medical. If you cannot work as a JB pilot you better find another line of work if oyu want to keep your house.
You don't believe me? ask the LGB guys. tell them to tell you about our captain there who is sick,lost his medical and now has lost his savings,retirement and home becasue he was excluded form our fake"LOL".
Our retirement fails every year the ERISA test. It cost almost 2 mill to fix last year. it falls outside out PEA and it is bundled.the company can, and will, cap contributions in the future to stop form paying extra.
our wages are subpar. event they admitted it, and the 81 hour magic math to blend rate is actually 85 to make is closer to "average". and we are still bellow standard with the 85.
we have no scope.do you trust chew? read his bio.
Lots of otehr issues. read the PCRB report.
please inform yourself.
believe me, if JB was an island and our low compensation,benefits and non existent work rules would not affect every other narrow body pilot group negotiating an cba I would leave. as it stands, If I leave, wherever I go, I'm going to have my new management throw JB's subpar "contract" for 2,000 pilots at me, and that will affect me and evey other narrow body pilot group in the US. I'm not willing to do that.I will make sure this pilot group gets unionized and we get a good contract to raise the bar, not lower it, everyday.
being unionized and asking to improve our lives is not being anti JB.
asking for income security (insurance) for our families is not anti JB.
asking for job security is not being anti JB
asking for a decent middle class life is not being anit JB.
you can negotiate hard and aggressively and still love JB.
being selfish like you are and saying "I got mine F you all" is being anti JB and flies on the face of our caring value, wich is one of reasons I join JB. JB's management has ignored it for too long.now it's time to help them find it again.
learn to care about others, life is not about you only.
I quit my last gig becasue I saw a faster upgrade at JB and a non confrontational management style that, when unionized ,had the potential of being a career airline.
If you think "we can improve anything @ JB you are obviously clueless about discrimination laws and labor laws in this country.You are also clueless about OJI insurance, LTD/LOL insurance, Scope,Retirement and health insurance.
let me explain ,once again ,what some issues are:
we do not have OJI insurance. we have a joke that will give you up to $500/week if you get hurt working while @ JB. You cannot use VSTD and you cannot use LOL/LTD. every other airline gives you minimum guarantee while on OJI becasue they have a separate plan for pilots. with no cba there is no separate plan.
We do not have LOL insurance. the company keep lying about it. after the LGB town hall meeting and a lot of pressure form JBPA volunteers asking the same questions at every town hall meeting before, they finally admitted we have an LTD insurance, not LOL. LTD covers every employee, and ,sadly,excludes the majority of the conditions that will cause you ,a pilot,to loose your medical. If you cannot work as a JB pilot you better find another line of work if oyu want to keep your house.
You don't believe me? ask the LGB guys. tell them to tell you about our captain there who is sick,lost his medical and now has lost his savings,retirement and home becasue he was excluded form our fake"LOL".
Our retirement fails every year the ERISA test. It cost almost 2 mill to fix last year. it falls outside out PEA and it is bundled.the company can, and will, cap contributions in the future to stop form paying extra.
our wages are subpar. event they admitted it, and the 81 hour magic math to blend rate is actually 85 to make is closer to "average". and we are still bellow standard with the 85.
we have no scope.do you trust chew? read his bio.
Lots of otehr issues. read the PCRB report.
please inform yourself.
believe me, if JB was an island and our low compensation,benefits and non existent work rules would not affect every other narrow body pilot group negotiating an cba I would leave. as it stands, If I leave, wherever I go, I'm going to have my new management throw JB's subpar "contract" for 2,000 pilots at me, and that will affect me and evey other narrow body pilot group in the US. I'm not willing to do that.I will make sure this pilot group gets unionized and we get a good contract to raise the bar, not lower it, everyday.
being unionized and asking to improve our lives is not being anti JB.
asking for income security (insurance) for our families is not anti JB.
asking for job security is not being anti JB
asking for a decent middle class life is not being anit JB.
you can negotiate hard and aggressively and still love JB.
being selfish like you are and saying "I got mine F you all" is being anti JB and flies on the face of our caring value, wich is one of reasons I join JB. JB's management has ignored it for too long.now it's time to help them find it again.
learn to care about others, life is not about you only.
09-06-2008, 05:27 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Jet Blue Pay Raise?
Is that the title of this thread? I thought you guys ate your young in exchange for a raise? How is it a raise if only some get a raise, while other will make less? Thanks for raising the bar yet again, and proving to management that "it's all about me."
Is that the title of this thread? I thought you guys ate your young in exchange for a raise? How is it a raise if only some get a raise, while other will make less? Thanks for raising the bar yet again, and proving to management that "it's all about me."
09-06-2008, 07:58 PM
#60
Retired
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: whale wrangler
Posts: 3,527
Wow!I was under the impression that this was about pay raises ,turned into a flame fest in a hell of hurry from what I,ve been reading
As far as unions go why don,t you ask other pilots in here who worked for carriers that are no longer around and ask them just what the union did for them, don,t be surprised at the answer that you get from them .
Hey ! Where are all the white women at ?
As far as unions go why don,t you ask other pilots in here who worked for carriers that are no longer around and ask them just what the union did for them, don,t be surprised at the answer that you get from them .
Hey ! Where are all the white women at ?
Last edited by DYNASTY HVY; 09-06-2008 at 07:58 PM. Reason: spell check !
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