flybynuts

Interesting point...I have never heard that before...disgruntled SW pilots but I am new to this industry as a pilot. I know the old days had guys wanting to leave SWA for the big boys but people really chase the $$$$.

Resque

QOL means everything when you have a family. 18 days on, excluding the possible commute is rough. I just think that we can do better than that as far as flexibility goes. I feel captive at times. It is literally impossible to drop a trip and who's picking up the crap that a junior guy has.

Outofthebox

QOL and Pay

There were guys in my class that made 90,000 their first year and guys that made only 55,000. If you want to work more you can make as much as the FAR'S will let you. If you want 20 days off a month that can happen as well just less pay. I can say it is an awesome place to work and after first year pay making 6 figures is good and I hope it gets better with our next contract.

757Driver

There's a lot more than one of me at CAL Mark. If you think your pro-management stance is going to fly for this round of negotiations, your very mistaken.

Lose the scab mentality and start protecting our profession and let management do their job.

redblueskies

I would not voluntarily leave a career position in this business unless things looked extremely bleak. Maybe if it would eliminate a commute you would otherwise not be able to eliminate. 5 years is a long time in this business, 10 years is an eternity. Having the name "Southwest" does not somehow grant you indefinite immunity to the perils of the aviation industry.

OscartheGrouch

The unhappiness for some at SWA ten years ago has been removed from the equation. You don't hear anyone whining about a defined benefit program or wanting the payscale that the so called legacies currently have. AMR and CAL still have their DB program but very few of SWA's pilots would like to trade positions with them.

XHooker

Flyby, pre-9/11 the legacies were ahead of SWA and the box haulers as career choices. My, how times have changed. The reason SWA looks so good right now is because all of the other passenger carriers look so bad. Will it stay that way...who knows?

My two cents. SWA is a great company with superior management and (from the ones I know) a great pilot group. The company has a game plan that it has sticks to and keeps its debt low. On the flip side, as it runs into more competition, it becomes more difficult to execute the game plan with the same spectacular results. Right now, SWAs ability to hedge fuel has done wonders for its bottom line, but as far as the operational side goes, I don't think it's anything special. The good news is I think its fuel hedges are significant through 2012.

I don't know what you fly at CAL, but it is a different airline depending on what fleet you're in. Despite the fact they work under the same contract, the life of a 777 pilot bears little similarity to the life of a 737 pilot at CAL, so the light at the end of the tunnel isn't necessarily a train. I think the future looks OK at CAL, but then again, we're always hearing about how things are going to change for the better. In the decade plus that I've been here, the pilot group is still very disjointed.

At SWA you'll be starting from the bottom and never fly anything but a 737, but you probably won't be subject to the job insecurities of the other carriers. I think the risk vs. reward is greater at CAL, it depends on what level of risk you're willing to accept. A couple of weeks ago, I flew with a guy who was in the bottom 100 and told him to go with SWA if they call and don't look back. Congratulations on having the choice, but since you took the COLA, it sounds like you already made your decision. Good luck at SWA.

Bond

That's funny, I'm not trying to flame you brother, but have you done any kind of research about the way the operation runs at Southwest?

Strickly as a jumpseater you can see the difference in the operations between the two companies:

SWA - Gate agents happy to be there, and willing to help you at any hub or station.

CAL - Been to EWR lately? You couldn't get a smile out those people if you had a gun to their heads, and as soon as you approach the counter for a jumpseat request, you automatically become a second class citizen.

SWA - Incredibly efficient, will turn an aircraft in 20-25 minutes.

CAL - I've seen them take an hour at IAH turning a 735.

SWA - Employee moral at SWA is always incredibly high, and they're always happy to see you.

CAL - Is always hit or miss, I've had guys that were really cool about guys asking for the jumpseat, and guys that had a huge bug up their ***.

SWA - Controllable completion factor always above 98%

CAL - Checked the DNU lately?

Don't get wrong, I think CAL is a fine company, but as far as the operation, there is simply no question that SWA runs a great operation, which is a direct byproduct of employees that really care about their company, and a culture that stands out in the industry. If you believe that fuel hedging is the only reason why Southwest continues to be profitable, then I suggest you take a closer look at their business model, and at the hands that make it happen every day.

SaltyDog

Flybynuts,
You have the opportunity to refine career goals. Great opportunity (dilemma <g>). I think you should consider past performance, management models, and future outlook.
I think with only a year at CO, you should go SWA.
My background was one with a flow through number at CO while at COEX.
I chose to leave because long term goal was profitability and career stability.
Most of us learn to find our niche in whatever airline we end up and are happy overall despite our obligation to bellyache.
CO is a great group of people, enjoyed the flying and possibilities. But the nagging thing was that CO has the same historical trends and characteristics of turmoil as all legacies.
Three that were different:SWA/FEDEX/UPS. Different management styles regarding employees, but all shared profitability, well compensated pilots, and predictability in the market. All had management teams that were invested long term in their particular company and not golden parachute chasers.
Not saying CO is that way now, but not always true nor will it remain.
I ended up going UPS but pursued all three. It was difficult when the actual choice popped up because at the time, alot of promise at CO of which I could be a part. Lived in domicile, enjoyed the flying. Nonetheless, I broke through the inertia and went to a cargo job before it was popular. <g>
No regrets, still stay in touch with friends at CO. Glad I went when the opportunity availed itself though.

Wasatch Phantom

That's a tough question, but it's nice to have the option.

I've felt for a long time that within the airline industry the individual carriers have their glory days and then are out of favor for a while. For example: In the early eighties American was the carrier of choice. In the late eighties it was Delta, and so on.

SWA has really done a magnificent job for quite a while. They have stuck with their business model despite many temptations to deviate from it. I think operationally they execute very, very well. While I'm sure there may be some disgruntled employees, they are certainly rare.

Will the glory days continue for SWA? I certainly don't have the answer.

My impression is that job satisfaction is higher at SWA than other carriers. That can change, but it sure is nice to enjoy your job and the people you work with. Similarly, job security allows one to sleep better at night, and not worry about getting furloughed, etc.

These are quality of life issues that are really hard to quantify in terms of comparing carriers, but I think you must factor them into your decision making.