Junior at NW/DL? Here's some CPS flowdown info.
12-15-2008, 11:43 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy
Your right. The original IPO was slated to happen the week after 9/11. That was when it was suppose to stop, but for obvious reasons, the IPO was postponed. CAL didn't want to honor it because if the costs associated with the flow back pilots after 9/11. The IACP forced them to honor the flow agreement until the actual IPO which went down in 2002 so the pilots were allowed to flow back. Once the IPO was done in 2002, the whole deal was cancelled. There were about 200 that were allowed to go over after that without interviewing because the IACP cut a deal with CAL. They didn't get the same deal as the original flow-ups did although they did flow up when CAL started hiring again.
FWIW, most CAL guys who could see they would not be able to hold a Captain slot did not flow down. It helped that they furloughed in one big lump, because guys could see what they would hold. If Delta furloughs in one big chunk, I think you would see the same thing. The problem arises when Delta furloughs 150, then six month later furloughs some more. Now those who thought they could be at Compass making $65/hr are pushed back to $24/hr. Overall, it is a risky option for anyone if you don't know how deep the furloughs will go. It will also cost the company TONS of money. I think ALPA should be all over the costs involved with this deal and attempt to bring all the E jets over to mainline.
FWIW, most CAL guys who could see they would not be able to hold a Captain slot did not flow down. It helped that they furloughed in one big lump, because guys could see what they would hold. If Delta furloughs in one big chunk, I think you would see the same thing. The problem arises when Delta furloughs 150, then six month later furloughs some more. Now those who thought they could be at Compass making $65/hr are pushed back to $24/hr. Overall, it is a risky option for anyone if you don't know how deep the furloughs will go. It will also cost the company TONS of money. I think ALPA should be all over the costs involved with this deal and attempt to bring all the E jets over to mainline.
And I agree that E jets should be at mainline. If it doesn't have an airstair, it should be at mainline. And if thats still not possible, then the airplanes should be at a place that has a flow back clause.
12-15-2008, 11:50 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Check 6
Nice post..
I can't believe $23 an hour.....how much at Walmart???
I can't believe $23 an hour.....how much at Walmart???
Last edited by dojetdriver; 12-15-2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason: spelng
12-15-2008, 11:56 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92
This is like a XJT reunion 
12-15-2008, 12:00 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy
There were about 200 that were allowed to go over after that without interviewing because the IACP cut a deal with CAL. They didn't get the same deal as the original flow-ups did although they did flow up when CAL started hiring again.
Are you talking about "schindler's list" or the "P.I.G.S" when you reference "about 200"?
I thought that CAL DID interview those guys after the IPO/spinoff, and gave them conditional letters that they would get class dates when CAL hired again. But like you said, they didn't get the same things the original FTA's got.
12-15-2008, 12:02 PM
#46
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It absoutlely sucked. Yes, I agree. And I hope if anyone here is flowed back into it that they don't go screaming and yelling as some/a few initially did from CAL. Although there were some benefits from that in terms of improving the training department, it sure wasn't fun to deal with the angst as you sped backwards into lines with 8 hour 4-days.
12-15-2008, 12:16 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by The Duke
All of this discussion seems to underscore why a flow-through (flow-ups as well as flow-downs) makes no sense financially. I'm really surprised NW had this arrangement w/ the Compass operation. From a pilot's perspective, it's seen as an "easy" in to a legacy carrier, but history seems to suggest that these flow-through arrangements turn out messy and expensive.
I don't know much about the old ExpressJet flow-through w/ Continental, but it's gone now. If you're running a business and want to keep your costs under control, you want to be able to bid accordingly for flying contracts w/ regional feed. An airline is unable to do this when they have a flow-through arrangement. Like him or hate him, this was one of the reasons Bethune at Continental wanted the flow-through w/ ExpressJet to end. Now Delta finds itself in a bit of a bind because they need to control costs as the economy downsizes, but sending furloughed Delta pilots to Compass and bumping Compass pilots to the street seems awfully costly. The training costs would be ginormous. Hence the rumor that Compass might be sold/is sold gains credence at this point. It may be cheaper for Delta to file for divorce.
I don't know much about the old ExpressJet flow-through w/ Continental, but it's gone now. If you're running a business and want to keep your costs under control, you want to be able to bid accordingly for flying contracts w/ regional feed. An airline is unable to do this when they have a flow-through arrangement. Like him or hate him, this was one of the reasons Bethune at Continental wanted the flow-through w/ ExpressJet to end. Now Delta finds itself in a bit of a bind because they need to control costs as the economy downsizes, but sending furloughed Delta pilots to Compass and bumping Compass pilots to the street seems awfully costly. The training costs would be ginormous. Hence the rumor that Compass might be sold/is sold gains credence at this point. It may be cheaper for Delta to file for divorce.
12-15-2008, 12:22 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Are you talking about "schindler's list" or the "P.I.G.S" when you reference "about 200"?
I thought that CAL DID interview those guys after the IPO/spinoff, and gave them conditional letters that they would get class dates when CAL hired again. But like you said, they didn't get the same things the original FTA's got.
I thought that CAL DID interview those guys after the IPO/spinoff, and gave them conditional letters that they would get class dates when CAL hired again. But like you said, they didn't get the same things the original FTA's got.
12-15-2008, 12:37 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Are you talking about "schindler's list" or the "P.I.G.S" when you reference "about 200"?
I thought that CAL DID interview those guys after the IPO/spinoff, and gave them conditional letters that they would get class dates when CAL hired again. But like you said, they didn't get the same things the original FTA's got.
I thought that CAL DID interview those guys after the IPO/spinoff, and gave them conditional letters that they would get class dates when CAL hired again. But like you said, they didn't get the same things the original FTA's got.
12-15-2008, 12:39 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy
I went from an E-120 Captain.
ATC: "you're declaring an emergency, roger that, state you're em... oh that plane? Crash it, do us all a favor."
Pilot: "uh... no."
