UAL MEC Confiscates $$$$$$$
12-18-2008 | 06:30 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,887
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From: Guppy Capt.
Since the UAL-MEC has pulled the plug on the forum for UAL pilots, there is presently no other forum other than this to "get the word out" on what is going on at UAL. I hope someone out there is working on setting up a new forum OUTSIDE the oversight and censorship of the UAL MEC.
The issue of the week is the UAL "Furlough Fund." The furlough fund was originally designed several years ago to assist those pilots (at the time there were 2172 pilots in that category) with COBRA insurance premiums. The fund was administered responsibly and effectively and resulted in a great many of our pilots being assisted at the time of their greatest need. On average, we were assessed about $15 to $20 a month and the cost seemed to be spread fairly among the 7,000 of us on the seniority list.
With the advent of the furlough of additional UAL pilots (presently 223) the fund was re-activated. HOWEVER, this time, instead of assessing funds as they were needed, the UAL-MEC apparently has decided to create a "super-fund" to address any contingency. This is not what ANY United pilot had in mind, especially when I received my first furlough fund assessment of $176.00! This was just for the month of December. That e-mail was followed by another e-mail from ALPA declaring that they had "made a mistake" and that my monthly assessment was ONLY $95.20.
After several calls to my Council Chairman and the UAL MEC Secretary Treasurer, APPARENTLY this assessment is CORRECT. If my assessment is representative of the pilot group, and about half the pilots contributing more and half contributing less, I figure that this one assessment garnered the UAL-MEC over $665,000. Now, if they split that amount evenly with EVERY current furloughee, that would net them nearly $3,000 EACH!
If the MEC was paying about $450 per furloughee for COBRA insurance, the cost would be approximately $100,350. So, that begs the question ---What is the UAL MEC doing with the extra $565,000 that it has CONFISCATED from the pilot group?
Since the UAL-MEC has pretty much severed all forms of two way communication with it's pilots, I'll toss it out here and MAYBE it will garner the attention of SOMEONE - if anyone cares anymore.
If you are a United pilot I strongly urge you to contact your local council officers and DEMAND an accounting for this assessment. This organization appears to be out of control.
And I'll sign my name -
Steve Derebey
Member
Council #27
The issue of the week is the UAL "Furlough Fund." The furlough fund was originally designed several years ago to assist those pilots (at the time there were 2172 pilots in that category) with COBRA insurance premiums. The fund was administered responsibly and effectively and resulted in a great many of our pilots being assisted at the time of their greatest need. On average, we were assessed about $15 to $20 a month and the cost seemed to be spread fairly among the 7,000 of us on the seniority list.
With the advent of the furlough of additional UAL pilots (presently 223) the fund was re-activated. HOWEVER, this time, instead of assessing funds as they were needed, the UAL-MEC apparently has decided to create a "super-fund" to address any contingency. This is not what ANY United pilot had in mind, especially when I received my first furlough fund assessment of $176.00! This was just for the month of December. That e-mail was followed by another e-mail from ALPA declaring that they had "made a mistake" and that my monthly assessment was ONLY $95.20.
After several calls to my Council Chairman and the UAL MEC Secretary Treasurer, APPARENTLY this assessment is CORRECT. If my assessment is representative of the pilot group, and about half the pilots contributing more and half contributing less, I figure that this one assessment garnered the UAL-MEC over $665,000. Now, if they split that amount evenly with EVERY current furloughee, that would net them nearly $3,000 EACH!
If the MEC was paying about $450 per furloughee for COBRA insurance, the cost would be approximately $100,350. So, that begs the question ---What is the UAL MEC doing with the extra $565,000 that it has CONFISCATED from the pilot group?
Since the UAL-MEC has pretty much severed all forms of two way communication with it's pilots, I'll toss it out here and MAYBE it will garner the attention of SOMEONE - if anyone cares anymore.
If you are a United pilot I strongly urge you to contact your local council officers and DEMAND an accounting for this assessment. This organization appears to be out of control.
And I'll sign my name -
Steve Derebey
Member
Council #27
From what I, as a furloughed member, understand;
A vote was put out to the entire group to see if this fund was to be done. With the understanding that 1% of a paycheck (MAX) would be taken from each paycheck to go into the fund. A MAJORITY said yes.
Once the furloughees (which there are PLENTY more to come don't forget) benefits dry up, we have to pay COBRA, fill out a form for reimbursement, then we can get it (if we are eligible). My COBRA monthly payment with family and dental is $1200! So times that by ??? # furloughees (current and future) ADDS UP!!!
Thanks for those who voted yes by the way!!! For those that voted no, well...
My 11 month old appreciates it until we can get on my wife's new employer's benefits!!!
Just read Equinox's post. I am in the SAME boat!!! I would have to come to closing of our house WITH money to walk away!!!! Unemployment??? Michigan paid me for 6 weeks, then decided to look into it further and stopped payments!!!! (They are waiting for ALL the fund information from MI, FL, CO, NY...all my bases since Spirit/UAL). Tell that to Wells Fargo!!!! AND we have a place in NJ now that we have monthly rent on, because my wife has a job here!!! I HEAR YA!!!!
Last edited by Short Bus Drive; 12-18-2008 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Comment on Equinox's post
12-18-2008 | 06:48 AM
#32
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: B777 Capt
Equinox,
I know sorry probably is of no help to you, but I do have great empathy for your furlough and the financial issues. The debate here is definitely not in regards to the merits of the payment, but the possible misappropriation by ALPA.
Giving you guys what is needed is of great importance. However, accountability by a MEC that has shown a lack of responsibility is also of a great concern.
L
I know sorry probably is of no help to you, but I do have great empathy for your furlough and the financial issues. The debate here is definitely not in regards to the merits of the payment, but the possible misappropriation by ALPA.
Giving you guys what is needed is of great importance. However, accountability by a MEC that has shown a lack of responsibility is also of a great concern.
L
12-18-2008 | 07:08 AM
#33
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 225
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Equinox,
I know sorry probably is of no help to you, but I do have great empathy for your furlough and the financial issues. The debate here is definitely not in regards to the merits of the payment, but the possible misappropriation by ALPA.
Giving you guys what is needed is of great importance. However, accountability by a MEC that has shown a lack of responsibility is also of a great concern.
L
I know sorry probably is of no help to you, but I do have great empathy for your furlough and the financial issues. The debate here is definitely not in regards to the merits of the payment, but the possible misappropriation by ALPA.
Giving you guys what is needed is of great importance. However, accountability by a MEC that has shown a lack of responsibility is also of a great concern.
L
Agree with above and would like to add that it is a travesty for companies to treat people with such low value by setting them up for one thing and then delivering another. He!! will not only be hot, but be standing room only.
Carpe Diem
12-18-2008 | 07:26 AM
#34
New Hire
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
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From: Airbus Capt
We have only been given a quick blush on it at this point. They are going to front load the fist couple of months, because of bills coming due (for this program) and needed to make sure they had money on hand. They did say they would start to back it off more than likely in Feburary. This was weeks ago and will now ask for a more detailed update.
Here is the key gang. We pretty much have the same guys running this furlough fund that ran the last one. The last one ended pretty close to being on the money. Last time they ended up refunding an average of $12 per person. That is pretty good planning, and thus I trust (but will verify) that they have learned their mistakes from the last time they did this and are tweeking the way they do business this time.
So far, with their past performance, I give them credit they know what they are doing. Again, they hit it last time to a average $12 refund and they did refund the money as they said they would.
Rick
12-18-2008 | 07:31 AM
#35
New Hire
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Airbus Capt
My memory of the timeline seemed to indicate that FIN was created after the MEC knew TA1 was on the way. Also, IIRC FIN was also a product of the incoming term of SW.
Not sure I agree that the MEC is afraid. I believe it is more incompetence than fear. Reading the court testimony reveals a MEC that is embarassing to have as a representation.
In the conversations I have had with fellow pilots it seems fewer and fewer would support your position. Not too many pilots can point to anything that has improved since SW took office. In fact it seems that we have taken several steps backwards as a result of his actions.
The challenge to see how many people really support SW would be to throw the Hat switch to "ON" and see what happens. With the FOM change I have a feeling that would be a good barometer of what people think about the current MEC.
L
Not sure I agree that the MEC is afraid. I believe it is more incompetence than fear. Reading the court testimony reveals a MEC that is embarassing to have as a representation.
In the conversations I have had with fellow pilots it seems fewer and fewer would support your position. Not too many pilots can point to anything that has improved since SW took office. In fact it seems that we have taken several steps backwards as a result of his actions.
The challenge to see how many people really support SW would be to throw the Hat switch to "ON" and see what happens. With the FOM change I have a feeling that would be a good barometer of what people think about the current MEC.
L
719-331-8473.....anytime..
I am not going to make this a new forum. My phone is open anytime. Don't want to know.....I can't help then.
Rick
12-18-2008 | 08:20 AM
#36
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 709
Likes: 6
From: 320 Captain
Straight from the Judges Order:
A. The “Fix It Now” Campaign Under Former MEC Chairman Bathurst
The “Fix It Now” campaign, launched by Bathurst in December 2006, was focused
initially on modifying certain work rules negotiated during bankruptcy that ALPA believed were
unreasonably onerous. In connection with the campaign, Bathurst reactivated the MEC’s Strike
Preparedness Committee (“SPC”), which had been inactive for nearly five years. At that time,
ALPA could not lawfully strike for at least three more years. In announcing the campaign,
ALPA told United pilots that “[t]he ‘Fix It Now’ theme is the SPC’s message to you that you
need to join us in ensuring we all fly the present contract and not waive any section of it.” Pl.’s
Ex. 25, at 1 (emphasis in original).
The “Fix It Now” campaign, launched by Bathurst in December 2006, was focused
initially on modifying certain work rules negotiated during bankruptcy that ALPA believed were
unreasonably onerous. In connection with the campaign, Bathurst reactivated the MEC’s Strike
Preparedness Committee (“SPC”), which had been inactive for nearly five years. At that time,
ALPA could not lawfully strike for at least three more years. In announcing the campaign,
ALPA told United pilots that “[t]he ‘Fix It Now’ theme is the SPC’s message to you that you
need to join us in ensuring we all fly the present contract and not waive any section of it.” Pl.’s
Ex. 25, at 1 (emphasis in original).
Wallach stepped up the FIN campaign, but he didn't come into Office until January 2008.
SD was there when FIN was created, so he can provide more info on the time lime/correlation between that and the TA1. (I don't believe there was a connection but will letl others debate that)
G
12-18-2008 | 09:37 AM
#37
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 844
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From: B777 Capt
Thanks for taking the time to post here. However, what can be learned speaking to you over the phone that can not be learned by reading the MEC updates, judges ruling and evidence exhibits? I personally don't want a sell job on SW and the MEC. The Chairman and the MEC have put us in a precarious position.
Also, you mentioned that you would like to see more than 15 people at a council meeting. A great idea and concept. However, with the large number of commuters, min day off lines, no trip trading etc, there are very little opportunities for pilots to be assured of the date of the LEC meetings off. If ALPA would like to recognize the advances in technology, we could have excellent participation with web broadcast of council meetings. It seems ALPA prefers to have limited access to keep the numbers in participation down.
L
12-18-2008 | 05:04 PM
#38
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: B737 CAPT IAH
At least Dubinsky, Whiteford and Bathurst were smart enough to keep us out from under the supervision of a Federal judge! There were times during all three of those administrations (and I had a front row seat) that getting hauled into court was a distinct possibility. Wallach lost control of his troops. Once the IRC had a freee hand to do whatever they wanted without any supervision from the MEC office, the die was cast. All management had to do was start gathering information, and they did that very effectively. Hell, they even had the brass nuts to use KC "delays" against us! After you and I and most pilots had stopped caring about whether they assigned a delay to us or not. We laid back and let the operation dump on us when they couldn't perform and they used that against us. Incredible.
I see this as a failure of leadership. I watched how Mark Bathurst worked management and the BOD. While most pilots will never know how effective he was, what he did worked. Now, we didn't get any big gains during that four years, but on the other hand we weren't HAMMERED by a Federal judge and had ALL of our negotiating leverage STRIPPED from us.
What leverage do we have going into Section 6 right now? I can't think of any. We will get what management gives us and not a thing more due to Wallach and his little minions on the MEC. I've watched some of these clowns first hand and will tell you that there are several with so little intellectual capability it is amazing they are allowed to fly airplanes. We are in a very deep hole, largely due to the incompetence of several MEC members and their officers.
The shutdown of the forum is merely "damage control." They are afraid of their shadow right now and more importantly afraid of the pilots they purport to represent. The forum shutdown is a symptom of a far greater problem - the inability to lead and the overall credibility of the MEC.
Realistically, there is little they can do. They have built themselves a box that they have to live in. They are now just attempting to maintain control over a pilot group which has seen, through the discovery process, that they are being "led" by incompetents. If you have not read the depositions, I would urge you to do so. They are still available. They paint a very sad picture of an organization lacking control and discipline. Dealing with the "Tilton Gang"? Fat chance. Won't come from this group.
Steve
I see this as a failure of leadership. I watched how Mark Bathurst worked management and the BOD. While most pilots will never know how effective he was, what he did worked. Now, we didn't get any big gains during that four years, but on the other hand we weren't HAMMERED by a Federal judge and had ALL of our negotiating leverage STRIPPED from us.
What leverage do we have going into Section 6 right now? I can't think of any. We will get what management gives us and not a thing more due to Wallach and his little minions on the MEC. I've watched some of these clowns first hand and will tell you that there are several with so little intellectual capability it is amazing they are allowed to fly airplanes. We are in a very deep hole, largely due to the incompetence of several MEC members and their officers.
The shutdown of the forum is merely "damage control." They are afraid of their shadow right now and more importantly afraid of the pilots they purport to represent. The forum shutdown is a symptom of a far greater problem - the inability to lead and the overall credibility of the MEC.
Realistically, there is little they can do. They have built themselves a box that they have to live in. They are now just attempting to maintain control over a pilot group which has seen, through the discovery process, that they are being "led" by incompetents. If you have not read the depositions, I would urge you to do so. They are still available. They paint a very sad picture of an organization lacking control and discipline. Dealing with the "Tilton Gang"? Fat chance. Won't come from this group.
Steve
FWIW I share many of your observatios. I'll also add that the SPC was a too much too soon given the time frame in question and also the events that have happened are why I declined an invite to the IRC.
Yes we have inept airline managers, but they are adept at providing a rope to hang ourselves with. "we" got sucked into the trap and now have the court order. Great timing for section 6.
I will enjoy looking in from the outside to see how this plays out. However, expectations are low....
Lee
Last edited by LeeFXDWG; 12-18-2008 at 05:10 PM.
12-18-2008 | 05:42 PM
#39
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We will only know our career after it is finished. However, this is the same pilot group at United that sat the contract bar for the entire industry in 2000. Now its time for ALPA's pattern based bargaining with CAL due large gains. Plus, Luv and the nazis could do some heavy lifting this year.
Carpe Diem
12-18-2008 | 06:25 PM
#40
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: B737 CAPT IAH
We will only know our career after it is finished. However, this is the same pilot group at United that sat the contract bar for the entire industry in 2000. Now its time for ALPA's pattern based bargaining with CAL due large gains. Plus, Luv and the nazis could do some heavy lifting this year.
Carpe Diem
Carpe Diem
While I think the pilot would be allowed to strike under the new administration, it will not happen without an extended section 6 and mediation process. 2011 at the earliest. Perhaps the economy will turn around by then. However that will be a nine year concessionary contract....
Lee
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