Alot! Here I will make it easier on you -- 877-862-0714. Toll free even. What are you so afraid to learn? The truth about what has been going on. Are you afraid I may ruin your preconceived ideas?

By the way, I said 50 not 15.

I have pushed for that for years......still....excuses. Start with a simple phone call to me, just pick up the phone and diiiiaaalll.............

 

Rick,

Why are you afraid to post the truth? Does ALPA expect 6000 pilots to ring you up to get the real story?

Not sure what preconceived ideas you think I have. Your implications are that based on testimony, exhibits, a judges ruling and obvious missteps by the MEC. That we (the pilot group) are not able to digest that information and make informed decisions and opinions. Just look at how SW has had to readjust that ridiculous counting meter on the ALPA site. He is looking more and more absurd with each and every retraction and new line in the sand.

Why not poll the pilot group on the ALPA leadership. You guys really need to understand that you have lost the majority it seems.

Maybe you should be ringing the pilots in your council, versus directing them to call you. Best of luck to all of us.

L

 

Jeez Lambourne,
Call Rick, or call any other rep that you feel you can trust. Or better yet, call several of the current reps. Based on the recent past, I doubt that they're all singing from the same choir book. You can get a few different points of view that way.
As for "6000 pilots...", I know you meant that as an exaggeration, but the short answer is "yes". If you can't make it to a meeting, then the call your rep and get the current gouge. That's what they're there for.
One of the biggest frustrations of the union is an uninformed membership. Despite all of the ALPA blasts, emails, council meetings, CDs, websites, and domicile appearances, I'm still shocked at the number of uninformed or misinformed pilots that are on the line. Apathy and ignorance. And then people come on APC for answers instead of calling their reps. GMAB.

Lambourne, that question makes me wonder about your motives. If you really have been following the lawsuit, then you would know that the company will use whatever it can to hang the union, regardless of the context or the original intent of the message. Obviously, the discussion would be within the bounds of any legal requirements. Even still, this is not the venue to have that discussion.
As it is, I'm pretty disappointed with SD's decision to even start this thread. War is hell, I guess, and politics is war.

Hog

 

to my current and soon to be furloughed fellow pilots at ual.

i checked on the cobra insurance, it's absolute crap--- SO... im currently looking for private insurance at a rate 1/3- 1/4 of cobra--- is it my understanding that this can get reimbursed and possibly last longer than paying 1000's for crappy cobra coverage-- this is the most ridiculous program ever in regards to insurance--- pre existing conditions are a freaking joke!

united just ****ed off thousands, if not 80% of their pilots for the remainder of their career, should they decide to come back.

all i can say, is try private insurance-- i looked at the BCBS rate plans and found one similar to the one united has for about 294 for husband and wife-- btu of course we're waiting to see if they'll cover her pre existing condition, if not-- i have no clue how we can afford her injections at 1200 per week-- we can start by going every other week but still, we shoudlnt have to choose b/w the health and our wealth accumulation--

i know there are programs out there that can assist in paying for medications, both thru the manufacturer as well as state and or federal programs--

so basically after jan 31 our insurance is crap-

anyone recd ANY information on how cobra works, the medicines they cover etc?

merry f'n xmas.

also to generate some money-- sell some stuff on ebay and craigs list-- i've sold prob about 5k worth of stuff in the past 3-5 months and that money is defintely worth the effort-- why just today, i sold a HP printer and a car waxing orbiter polisher for 35 bucks--- don't laugh it adds up-- last week i sold my laptop for 400 on craigs list and the week prior, i sold a broken washing machine for 100

i hope you have as luch good luck as i have had with craigslist-- and i live in a small sity too-- use a big cities craigs list and the stuff sells with'n days, even hours!

SKIPPY

and thats BS, MI stopped your claim-- show them the nice letter you recd stating your furlough about high oil prices,,,, the person prob read it and said oil is at 36 bucks now and thinks you're trying to scam them -- f'n ridiculous

 

I will state up front, this will be my last post here, or at least the one that will follow this.....

I have had two individual call me because of these posts. I think, but could be wrong, that they both found it at least informative. I believe they both understand why posting everything is not an option; if you don't understand that, your knowledge of the process is not up to speed. Your credibility, IMHO, is shot here because you refuse to get information being offered to you.


Nope, my only implication is directed at you, not the rest of the pilots. You see you refuse to get more information. Nothing but excuses for not finding out all you can. So my implication is you are determined to hold to your idea and any further information is not getting in. You are proof of: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But, good for you, you have stood your ground.

You have no clue what and how I have kept Denver pilots informed. Assumption will get you in trouble as you are proving.

My last post will give you a glimpse of how I communicate to the pilots I represent.

Open mind in tact,
Rick

 

December 17, 2008


Council 33 Pilots,

This message is to give you information and express my views. As Captain Wallach has said (see his message of December 16), your union leaders have to be free to give you our views about our management without worrying that this will lead you to take action against the company. I am confident you will accept this and future communications that way.

Captain Wallach wrote you last week and stated that senior management has made it clear that they want to improve your quality of life now. I want to take the time to show you the commitments they have made publically and in a timeline. There is no disputing what they promised in their series of the “Seeds of Doubt” letters.

The beginning of the “Seeds of Doubt” was clear in a letter to Capt. Wallach by Doug McKeen, which was reproduced for the membership. Within this letter, Mr. McKeen states: “That is why we were particularly disappointed- and frankly, puzzled – about your (speaking of Capt. Wallach) decision to end discussions abruptly on the following” - as the company representative continued to assert that it was QWL and the Pilot Early Retirement Program (PERP) that they were ready to finish. There is an obvious effort to convey the notion that United, not ALPA, was and still is ready to make your life better. Take note of the generous offer from Mr. Doug McKeen, included within his letter of October 1st:

“With so many tangible improvements left outstanding, we stand ready to continue this dialogue anywhere, at any time. When we do, we will be able to jointly consider all options, weighed, of course, against the budget parameters with which you are well acquainted. To be clear, there is no separate, segregated source of funds expressly devoted to these issues.”

Did you notice the inferred caveat? Read that quote again please, as it contains the bait and switch - he repeats the familiar offering of “something for something.” The company representatives are unwilling to negotiate unless we offer parts of our CBA in exchange for any other modifications. They call it “cost-neutral” or “equal-offset”. They continue to find new ways to call contract concessions by other names, but the membership has made it crystal clear that the concession stand is closed. Consequently, as Capt. Wallach told you, “we are not going to waste dues dollars negotiating against ourselves.”

These “Seeds of Doubt” letters were published after the company’s complaint was filed in federal court and the lawsuit had begun. In the case of Mr. McKeen’s letter, partially quoted above, Capt. Wallach responded and published that letter for the membership. The central point of his rebuttal letter is recounted below:

“Contrary to your letter, Howard and I in fact had a telephone conversation, and Howard agreed to send over a list of items he wanted to discuss. He has not done so to date, and I have reminded him of that fact”

Further documentation of this exchange is provided by the email that Capt. Wallach sent on October 2nd, part of which is quoted here:

“I’m somewhat taken aback at your assertion that I “rejected” your request to meet. To the contrary, I did not “reject” a meeting but rather requested that you send over, in writing, the list of the “bag-of-goodies” you have publically told the pilot group was available. I then indicated that the officers would determine whether there was a basis for a face-to-face meeting.”

It is difficult to acknowledge anything other than the company’s continued desire to occupy our time and waste our money in “dialogue”, as Mr Mckeen calls it. To repeat Capt. Wallach, “ We are not going to negotiate with ourselves.”

As the court proceedings developed, Capt. Wallach also expressed to Mr. McKeen:

“My suggestion to Joe was grounded in the fact that constructive engagement has been made nearly impossible by the company’s lawsuit against ALPA and four individually named pilots.”

The reason for this statement, despite Capt. Wallach’s desire to openly review and consider Attarian’s self-described “bag-of-goodies,” is it remained Capt. Wallach’s responsibility to make every effort to prevent individual pilots from being sued. Despite his willingness to consider offers (that never came), he made it clear that “full” engagement would occur if the four named pilots were removed from the lawsuit. Senior management has repeatedly refused this offer, yet on the very day the Judge awarded the company a preliminary injunction against ALPA, one senior manager had the gall to state:

“This is not a lawsuit against pilots…..” Joe Kolshak, Nov. 18th

Please review the other company statements included in the recent “Seeds of Doubt” series:

September 2008
“Integrity and leadership mean doing the right thing in the face of adversity.”
Howard Attarian

Remember that one, because we are going to hold him to that statement.

October 2008
“Recently we were on the cusp of finalizing a QWL/Fatigue agreement while also delivering our initial proposal for a voluntary retirement program that would have helped mitigate the need for furloughs”….
Joe Kolshak


“We have urged him to reconsider his refusal to meet and have let him know that we are ready to reengage – without any preconditions, at any time.”
Joe Kolshak

October 1, 2008
“With so many tangible improvements left outstanding, we stand ready to continue this dialogue anywhere, at any time.”
P. Douglas McKeen

November 18th, 2008 (On Injunction Day)
“Earlier this year, we had reached a number of agreements with ALPA and were on the verge of finalizing a QWL/fatigue agreement and considering a voluntary early retirement program that would help mitigate the need for furloughs, and we stand ready to resume those discussions”
Joe Kolshak

“We all know there’s room for improvement and we remain committed to making this happen.”
Joe Kolshak

Also, one should be aware of Mr. Attarian’s statements during the domicile tour in Denver. When asked by a pilot if Mr. Attarian had the resources to fix the pilots problems, He stated emphatically that the company promised him the resources to fix the pilots’ problems when he interviewed for VP of Flight Operations, and stated,

“I would not have accepted the job if I had not been given the resources. I was promised the tools to fix these problems, and the tool shed is open.”

Now you can understand why Capt. Wallach stated the following:

“Messrs Kolshak, Attarian, and McKeen: I have authorized the Negotiating Committee to engage the corporation in QWL, fatigue mitigation and the PERP program because you have made it abundantly clear to the United pilots that you want to improve their quality of life issues now. You have also made it clear you wish to offer greater furlough mitigation. We stand ready for you to prove this commitment to the pilots of United Airlines. We stand ready for you to do this without a “cost neutral” or “equal offset” negotiation. We also stand ready for you to validate your open display of consideration afforded to the pilots with a trip trade system that brings real flexibility and quality of working life to our pilots”.

The company is now on point to perform, just as they have said they would. Let them put their money where their mouth is, or we will all know the “Seeds of Doubt” were crafted only for that reason. I will gladly be made the fool if they can deliver on a Trip Trade system with real flexibility, real QWL issues, improvement in fatigue mitigation, and a PERP that is far superior to what a senior pilot would get out of the Voluntary furlough; and now, not is Section 6. The initial contact with our negotiation committee on December 2nd does not show much new in their response.

I hope this helps to clarify the issue.

Like you, I am Standing Ready,
Rick Perry
Chairman - DEN Council 33
719-331-8473
[email protected]

 

Thank you Rick for countering the naysayers. I believe UAL has alot going for it (ops side), and am tired of the dogs nipping at the heels. Its past time for everyone to stand up and be counted.

Carpe Diem

 

REAL,

Frats,
Lee

Sent from my iPhone