An acceptable pay ratio
12-31-2008, 01:19 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: A320 starboard... Arrrr
Posts: 520
An acceptable pay ratio
I have always thought that there should be a standardized ratio between CA and FO pay scales. What do you think about the idea and how should it be implemented?
Personally, i think 5:8 would be a fair ratio.
This would be a set ALPA ratio and would eliminate the need for negotiating 2 sets of pay scales. Obviously exceptions would be needed to be made for the few outfits with FEs.
Usually union negotiators are CAs and perhaps, negotiations begin to favor the top half of the list. If we can raise the lower end of the industry, it will be easier to raise the upper!
Signed, A poor-ass FO.
Personally, i think 5:8 would be a fair ratio.
This would be a set ALPA ratio and would eliminate the need for negotiating 2 sets of pay scales. Obviously exceptions would be needed to be made for the few outfits with FEs.
Usually union negotiators are CAs and perhaps, negotiations begin to favor the top half of the list. If we can raise the lower end of the industry, it will be easier to raise the upper!
Signed, A poor-ass FO.
12-31-2008, 01:54 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: A320/321 FO
Posts: 1,114
I think FO's should be paid what CA's are paid. Then take the *new* FO pay, and multiply that by 1.75 to equal what CA's SHOULD be paid. That way, our pay scales here in the states would be somewhat consistant with the rest of the world.
...nuff said
...nuff said
12-31-2008, 01:58 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,310
Originally Posted by willflyforcash
I have always thought that there should be a standardized ratio between CA and FO pay scales. What do you think about the idea and how should it be implemented?
Personally, i think 5:8 would be a fair ratio.
This would be a set ALPA ratio and would eliminate the need for negotiating 2 sets of pay scales. Obviously exceptions would be needed to be made for the few outfits with FEs.
Usually union negotiators are CAs and perhaps, negotiations begin to favor the top half of the list. If we can raise the lower end of the industry, it will be easier to raise the upper!
Signed, A poor-ass FO.
Personally, i think 5:8 would be a fair ratio.
This would be a set ALPA ratio and would eliminate the need for negotiating 2 sets of pay scales. Obviously exceptions would be needed to be made for the few outfits with FEs.
Usually union negotiators are CAs and perhaps, negotiations begin to favor the top half of the list. If we can raise the lower end of the industry, it will be easier to raise the upper!
Signed, A poor-ass FO.
12-31-2008, 02:00 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 138
You need a minimum pay. This industry is slowing down due to national economics, but it is also settling down due to deregulation. More and more domestic flying is being done by regionals, low cost carriers and second-tier airlines broken off of former majors. The majors are shrinking and the lower paid airlines are growing. This means stagnation as more and more lower paid pilots compete for fewer and fewer higher paying jobs at the majors.
More regional first officers are going to be sitting in the right seat for longer then a few years. They need enough money to pay off debt, pay the rent and raise a family. They need to be making 35-40,000 a year within 3 years of hiring or they can't afford to stick around.
More regional first officers are going to be sitting in the right seat for longer then a few years. They need enough money to pay off debt, pay the rent and raise a family. They need to be making 35-40,000 a year within 3 years of hiring or they can't afford to stick around.
12-31-2008, 03:03 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
Not to worry. Age 65 is going to create another pilot vacuum in 4 years. Mix that in with empty flight schools right now and you'll be fine.
Seems like there's a bazillion pilots right now, but take a good look at all the high paying jobs. The majority are gray haired and started flying in Vietnam. They have to leave soon and there aren't enough seats to go around when they do. Then suddenly we get supply and demand working for us and ab initio creates the backlash. Ab initio can't fill left seats though.
Seems like there's a bazillion pilots right now, but take a good look at all the high paying jobs. The majority are gray haired and started flying in Vietnam. They have to leave soon and there aren't enough seats to go around when they do. Then suddenly we get supply and demand working for us and ab initio creates the backlash. Ab initio can't fill left seats though.
12-31-2008, 03:10 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by Phrog Phlyer
They need enough money to pay off debt, pay the rent and raise a family. They need to be making 35-40,000 a year within 3 years of hiring or they can't afford to stick around.
I think what the original poster was talking about was more on the regional level. Delta may be at 68% (of course this is after those horrendous concessionary wages you are working for) but here in regional land (where most of us will end up because of the way the business is being parted out like an old airframe). I as a 2nd year FO still make less than 1/2 what the guy with his feet propped up in the other seat checking stock quotes on his blackberry while I do all the work, gets paid.
out of breath...I've always been the type that says put the time in the money and perks will come, I am starting to listen to those that said I was wrong.
12-31-2008, 03:12 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by labbats
Ab initio can't fill left seats though.
What I'm getting at is this; at the Legacies, Cargo, whatever, there are PLENTY of guys that have been in the right seat for a LONG time with PLENTY of experience that are waiting to occupy the left seat.
At the regionals, it's getting similar. There are guys that have been in the right seat (or are now BACK in the right seat) for longer periods of time than we have seen in the past.
The place where it might be an issue at the same places as when the gravy train in flowing. The lower tier carriers that have ALWAYS had relatively quick upgrade times.
But like I said, either you can do this job or you can't.
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