takpilot

This is the article about the MRO network from the Airbus webpage....

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...23_05_MRO.html

http://www.airbus.com/en/myairbus/fe...17_05_MRO.html

Will91

Thanks for the Airbus link. I had not seen this one.

Now that I'm pretty sure the America West 757's are serviced by TIMCO in Macon, GA, I'd be interested in opinions or experiences about that facility.

One thing I've learned is that is appears only American Airlines still does 100% of major maintenance within American.

flaps 9

You're interest has raised a few questions. Do you fly often? Do you own an American Vehicle? How do you feel about the price of your ticket?

I'm just curious 'cause it seems strange to me that you are so concerned about where an airline sends a plane for a heavy check. I'm sure that you are aware that between heavy checks that there are litterally thousands of hands that "inspect" an aircraft. Not all of those hands "inspecting" the aricraft are employed by the company whos logo is painted on the side of the plane.

Airlines fly thousands folks safely to their destination every day. You can be assured that NO pilot is going to fly an airplane that they feel is unsafe. It really doesn't make a difference where mx work is done, cause if your plane crashed due to a mechanical failure, someone will still find a way to blame the accident on pilot error.

Pilotpip

The DC-9 that crashed on flight 592 had just come out of a heavy mx inspection from a company called Sabretech in Southern Fl. Then a division of Sabreliner Corporation based in St. Louis. Among other things, they found that the chemical oxygen generators that were replaced had been put in the forward pit, and not properly capped or discharged. In the forward hold a main gear tire was also placed on top of them. Tires and other parts are common when going to an outstation. One of the uncapped generators was "ignited". Basically, these things mix a couple chemicals and the exothermic reaction creates oxygen for the cabin masks. They also get incredibly hot. These ignited and the fire was fed by the pure oxygen while getting hotter as the result of the tire and other stuff in the hold.

Sabretech was noted in the NTSB report a number of times. Most of the work was done by non-certified employees under the "supervision" of an A&P. The removed generators were not properly tagged, and shouldn't have gone on the plane because they were comat.

I did a lengthy report on this one for an aviation safety class back in college. I have the report, all 600+ pages, in a binder and have read it cover to cover a couple times. It's amazing how many times this could have been averted but sadly wasn't. The other amazing thing is how in almost every aviation accident this is the case.

JetBlue and America West, like other 121 carriers in the US have had great safety records in recent years. I wouldn't be worried about flying on them, or any other carrier here. However, be aware that you get what you pay for and if you want cheap tickets this is what you get.

Will91

Let me elaborate why I started this post. I am going to Hawaii for a business purposes and decided to take my family. My ticket was already purchased on America West so I had to pick up two more. This led me out of curiosity to check up on America West (who I haven't flown with in quite some time). The data on www.airsafe.com was very reassuring but a google search quickly led me to an education on the topic of outsourced major maintenance. I did not realize that apparently all major airlines no longer retain their own mechanics for major repair. American Airlines seems to be the exception and has quite a bit of info on the topic on their website. It is there I learned all about A,B,C checks etc. I then came across and article by Harold Meyerson who writes for the Washington Post. He has made assertions that outsourced maintenance may compromise safety for several reasons: lower hourly wages, non-FAA certified mechanics, sporadic FAA checks to these facilities, etc. Specifically, in the case of America West, I have read that major maintenance for the Airbus goes to Aeroman TACA and the 757's go to TIMCO. First of all, in the aftermath of 9/11 should aircraft be going outside of US soil for heavy maintenance where workers have access to every nook and cranny on a plane? I don't know... maybe places like Aeroman have rigorous background and security checks. One would hope that the airlines and the FAA have these things under control. According to Aviation Today and Aviation Now, Aeroman DOES seems to be a good facility. Indeed, they are owned by TACA who has been around since 1931 and TACA has a spotless record at www.airsafe.com. In regards to TIMCO, about a year ago, the North Carolina facility was raided by INS and several illegal aliens were arrested. In addition, several employees were found to have FAA mechanic licenses that they should not have had. They had lied about things on their applications. TIMCO claimed these people subcontracted and were in "metal-working" areas of the facility and were supervised by other employees. No FAA license and illegal residence? This brings up safety AND security questions in my mind. Although this happened in the TIMCO facility in NC, I guess I can't help but wonder if these things can happen at the Macon, GA facility where, as far as I understand, AWA planes are sent. Shouldn't TIMCO be doing a better job screening their employees?

I know airline travel is safe. Anyone can realize that by looking at the statistics. On the other hand, outsourced maintenance has only built up steam in the past few years as far as I understand. Maybe the favorable statistics to date were because of in-house repairs by airline employees. Let's hope things remain the same or better.

In answer to your other questions, I only fly maybe once or twice a year. I own a Japanese built car simply because I believe it is built much better than comparitively priced American cars. If I had to pay even $100 more for a ticket and know every mechanic that touched that plane had an FAA license, was directly employed by the airline, and legally resided in the USA, I would do it. Mind you, I am not prejudiced that foreign workers can not do an equivalent job, I am concerned about security, FAA and airline oversight, and whether they take a personal "ownership" for the job they do.

I'm sure my question on this board may have seemed "odd" to some. I'm sure most passengers just book the cheapest fare without any consideration of an airline's reputation - much less reading about outsourcing issues. I appreciate that everyone here has been most gracious and generous with their input, but rest assured that my true motivitation for these concerns in purely rooted in the love I have for my family.

Linebacker35

Delta Outsources alot of maintenance to Air Canada in Vancouver. Delta sends their 757/767's to Air Canada for maintenance while AirCanada sends their 767's to sinnipore or something like that for maintenance. Seems like the stupidest system ever thought of.

Typhoonpilot

I'm with you prelude. All one has to do is look at the America of today versus the America of the 60s and 70s. I grew up in an America full of middle class suburbs and proud workers who generally had security and a good life. They weren't going to get rich, but who really cared as long as you enjoyed your life. Then CEOs only made 4 times the average employee's wages.

Fast forward to today and CEOs are making hundreds of times the average workers wages and no middle class worker, and especially no tradesman has much security working for a corporation. It's sad to see how greed and avarice have destroyed the American dream. Pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, gate agents ,etc are paying the price for this and have suffered a steadily declining lifestyle where they work harder and harder for less and less.

I far prefer Norman Rockwell's America to that of Carl Icahn, Frank Lorenzo, Stephen Wolf, etc.


Typhoonpilot

deadstick

Any fool who thinks outsourcing is good and then tries to back up their argument with economic reasons needs to go to school and learn economics from someone other than a liberal college professor.

I have two concepts that you pro-outsourcing types need to learn about. The first would be "Trade Deficit". Learn what that concept is and see if you can still argue the benefit of having China make our goods for us.

The second is Keynesian Economics. It's a whole lot harder to keep that circle flowing when there's a big whole in the side sucking all the money out to a foreign country.

Pilotpip

Deadstick,

Liberals tend to fight against outsourcing. It's the republicans that love things like NAFTA. Get your sides straight please.

Skygirl

I hear ya on that one Deadstick. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area which so many people love to disparage as the ******/liberal/weirdo capital of the world. Truth is, we also have the brightest, most educated population in the U.S., if not the world. Yes, we tend to vote Demo, but so what? The truth of the matter is, neither the Republicans or the Democrats are the same parties that our fathers believed in, or brainwashed us to believe in. The pendulum swings back and forth, doesn't it?

People who assume the thoughts and beliefs about people who vote different from them are foolish in their assumptions. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Silicon Valley employees here, who were raised Republican, rant about how outsourcing is hurting the U.S., and believe it or not, many of them are from other countries, like India! I also can't tell you how many times, I've heard many of my homosexual co-workers complain about illegal aliens getting a free ride in the U.S.

Yes, we in California pay more taxes than a lot of the U.S., but we also absorb the most immigrants, the ones who pick all the fruit and vegetables that the rest of the U.S. consumes at affordable prices.The taxes to pay for their health care, education, crime, and other issues, comes out of my California state taxes, my paycheck. I'm quite frankly tired of people in other states bashing California, when this state and it's economical strength subsidizes the rest of the US. I'm not from here, I'm from conservative Cincinnati, Ohio, but I still love it here. It's far from perfect, but please tell me where is "perfect?"...let the flaming begin...I know it's forthcoming with this group.