Not so fast, Bush Sr. and Clinton were falling all over themselves proclaiming the wonders of NAFTA during the 92 campaign. The only candidate that was against it was PEROT. Remember him and the "giant sucking sound"? Both the Dems and the Republicans put out all kinds of crap calling Perot a nut and claiming he was the one who did not understand NAFTA. So please get your sides straight.

 

Does AC do their own Airbus maintenance, or do they send it elsewhere, as your previous post indicates they do with 767 mx? Does anyone know why such an arrangement would work?

 

As a maintenance person myself, I have this conversation all the time in my office when I get with the planning guys and our managers to pick out an MRO.
The sad state is this: american repair stations do lousy work. And they are more expensive. The fact that the MRO use mexicans or usually, Salvadorans in sheet metal shops - makes no difference in quality. (usually they are really great)
When Ive been laid off the two majors I worked at, I "contracted". That is when the labor pool of mx workers are like migrants themselves, going from one repair station to the next until that C-check is over and there isnt another one behind it. And worse, the quality is bad because the pay is subpar- and worse than that and most impactful, the treatment is horrendous!
You have to believe me, you could be the hero that fixes everything the first time, but the day you **** up just once, youre fired. And I dont mean major foulup, just break something, or dont do it right the first time requiring more time "put on that task card" and youre out. I have literally seen workers show up on a job that they got sent to in Mobile, only to find that it was cancelled. You foot your own nickel to get there and you leave empty handed. But I digress....
The best work we get is out of Singapore and Haeco (in HKG), even TAECO (in xiamen) and they are also the least expensive. We also use KLM.
The tragedy is that Boeing did NOT consider performing 747-400 freighter conversions in the US like Kansas or Missouri where they used to, they went directly to TAECO. So Boeing is in fact NOT investing in America.

From my point of view, the safety and lower incident rates are due simply to technology and manufacturing. I've worked both Boeing and airbus, and theyre built well, I dont think there are many jobs a mechanic could foul up. So I feel no qualms about getting on any airplane. It flew in, it'll fly out.

As for the economic discussion going on here, one poster was right: China isnt buying Boeings because it wants to, it does it because thats all we make they need. In fact when they try to buy Airbus, Pres. BUSH literally had to strong arm one airline to split its order halfway between Boeing and Airbus.

The whole idea of trickle down economics is bunk because the rich who get so obscenely rich dont really spend that much more than the average american to make an impact on the worker. If I lost my job today, I wouldnt find another 50k a year job, I'd wind up working at Home Depot for 28k.

Ironically, its funny how airline pilots who made upwards of 200k a year for decades are talking about the dwindling middle class.

 

Interesting. Both Hong Kong and Singapore are effectively city-states with relatively immobile work forces, thereby precluding a migrating system like the one you describe in the US... Would you say that this has a positive impact on the quality of work that they provide?

 

Im not sure if AC does their own Airbus maintenance. They are part of the new Maintenance Repair & Overhaul (MRO) Network for Airbus. With a fleet the size of JetBlues I would imagine they are going to have to send their airbuses else where for maitenance. At the Vancouver heavy maitenance base they said they have only been working on Delta Aircraft exculsivly for the last year or so.
These arrangments seem pointless. I guess Delta and Jet Blue are heavily overpaying.
Their other big clients are United and Mexicana.

 

You keep making it sound like the unemployment rate is out of control. This is simply not true. As I previously posted the unemplyment rate has consistantly averaged right around the ideal 5 percent.

Why is China buying tons of our air frames and not building their own now? Their need is there, they have the money, space, and technology; but still they continue to buy our frames with no end in sight.

The trade deficit and outsourcing are two completely different animals. Most economists don't even concern themselves with the trade defict as it really is not a big deal. Check out the website and get a clue:
http://www.ou.edu/class/econ3003/book/area1c35.html

Where are you getting this from??? Outsourcing has been going on for decades and the unemployment numbers have spoke for themsleves. Ford closes down a bunch of plants in the states, Toyota, Nissan, and others built new plants in the states. People just move from one place to another. If a guy loses his job, he dosen't sit on his ass feeling sorry for himself and look sympathy, he goes and finds another job. Once again, middle class America is alive and well.

I don't know how to make it any more clear, outsourcing is not a bad thing. Ryane has provided you with 2 perfect examples. Your so tied up in your Keynesian economics (the circle is there but your choosing not to see it) and thinking the entire middle class of America is unemployed, you fail to see the big picture - outsourcing is not a bad thing.

 

Wow this thread has two topics at once.

First JMT21 you talk about how the unemployment rate has remained constant for the last fifty years. I agree with you but the question I ask you is what is the quality of the jobs that people are getting. For example, you have a small town that has a group of mom and pop shops selling goods to the town, employing people with jobs that pay above minimum wage. Then you get a big company who comes in and opens up a lost cost super center who sells everthing for cheaper and that shuts the small businesses down. Now the unemployment rate has not changed but now the wage rate has gone down, so that now affects quality of life of people in the town and to top it all off the big business is now taking all of the revenue out of the city and lining share holders pockets. But gosh darn it unemployment stayed the same. And I know you are thinking "hey they are paying less though now" but think for one minute you save what a few dollars on useless things but you lose two dollars an hour in wage and the business owners are now poor like you.

Second thing is about the trade defecit. It is bad because with the endless cycle this country is in of soaring defecits and a soaring trade defecit, what do you thing is going to happen. If you look at the dollar it is going down which means now we have to pay more dollars to buy the same product from another nation. Just think oil.

So not only are we taking money away from the people with offering lower paying jobs but now it is costing more money to get the same stuff. But gosh darn it I have to agree out source all of those jobs so we can pay less for stupid useless ****.

 

No, it is not.

 

Are you talking about a company moving its factory overseas, or are you talking about wal-mart moving into town? It sounds like the latter. Look at who works at a place like wal-mart - lots of high school/college students, a few older folks, few disabled folks, and few of your typical working class folks. Who you don't see is many of the former mom and pop type employees. If a job sucks and dosen't pay enough, do you keep working there? No, this is America, you go find some greener grass.

When talking about outsourcing, realize that the times are always changing. What happened to the blacksmiths, saddle makers, elevator operatos, and soon to be auto workers? The times change, people lose their jobs, but people are also able to adapt and move on to something else.

What do I think is going to happen??? Nothing, not a single thing. I don't think you checked out the website in my previous post, please do so.

Go re-read ryanes examples, If it cost more to make things after outsourcing, it would never have been outsourced to begin with.

 

The site speaks of the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer - it says little about middle class America. Go for a drive, check out the suburbs, this is middle class America. Are they deserted, falling apart, or turing into a new ghetto? No, they are growing and doing so rapidly all across America. Middle class America is fine.