View Poll Results: Delta pilots: staple Compass to Delta if:
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Real Unofficial Poll: Staple Compass if:
02-27-2009, 05:30 PM
#251
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
The Delta MEC and ALPA had a chance to fix this back in 2000 with the PID that was filed....It's a little late now...
The Delta MEC argued back then that it is not appropriate to integrate regional and mainline groups...Those words from the Delta MEC will probably be used against them now....
The Delta MEC argued back then that it is not appropriate to integrate regional and mainline groups...Those words from the Delta MEC will probably be used against them now....
If pilots get to choose who they merge with then I choose to merge with Fedex because the company makes money and their pilots get paid well. Oh, and the boxes don't complain if you pork up the landing.
02-27-2009, 05:39 PM
#252
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,382
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
The Delta MEC and ALPA had a chance to fix this back in 2000 with the PID that was filed....It's a little late now...
The Delta MEC argued back then that it is not appropriate to integrate regional and mainline groups...Those words from the Delta MEC will probably be used against them now....
The Delta MEC argued back then that it is not appropriate to integrate regional and mainline groups...Those words from the Delta MEC will probably be used against them now....
Wow is that a rewrite of history and labor law!!! I was at the one meeting and listened to Comair's demands. I say demands because that is how it was presented. We demand you merge us and DOH is all we will accept period! Sadly they forgot one small detail. DALPA does not control the seniority list. Management does. Dalpa does not control mergers. Management does. There was no opportunity to merger Comair and with the way they presented themselves even if we had some ability to effect a merger there would not have been much support.
The sad thing is that prior to that meeting there was strong support to try and get Comair and ASA onboard. That support evaporated rapidly.
The sad thing is that Comair was so focused on a DOH merger with Delta that they let slide the one thing they could have done that might have greatly changed their current situation and perhaps have led to one list down the road. That was file a single carrier petition for bargining purposes with ASA. They would have had a solid chance of getting that approved. Instead they choose another path and we all no how things have ended up.
02-27-2009, 06:45 PM
#253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Joe, say this again to yourself - "Management merges airlines, pilots don't merge airlines". The Delta MEC did not say it was inappropriate to integrate regional and mainline, they said "We can't merge our seniority lists until management merges the airlines." Why didn't Comair and ASA merge their lists? Because their airlines weren't merged. There are ways to have the two pilot groups declared a single bargaining unit, but that doesn't merge the companies, just the contract. Delta and ASA or Comair did not meet any of the tests required to be declared a single bargaining unit.
If pilots get to choose who they merge with then I choose to merge with Fedex because the company makes money and their pilots get paid well. Oh, and the boxes don't complain if you pork up the landing.
If pilots get to choose who they merge with then I choose to merge with Fedex because the company makes money and their pilots get paid well. Oh, and the boxes don't complain if you pork up the landing.
http://www.rjdefense.com/dalmecmergsub.pdf
02-27-2009, 06:50 PM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Wow is that a rewrite of history and labor law!!! I was at the one meeting and listened to Comair's demands. I say demands because that is how it was presented. We demand you merge us and DOH is all we will accept period! Sadly they forgot one small detail. DALPA does not control the seniority list. Management does. Dalpa does not control mergers. Management does. There was no opportunity to merger Comair and with the way they presented themselves even if we had some ability to effect a merger there would not have been much support.
The sad thing is that prior to that meeting there was strong support to try and get Comair and ASA onboard. That support evaporated rapidly.
The sad thing is that Comair was so focused on a DOH merger with Delta that they let slide the one thing they could have done that might have greatly changed their current situation and perhaps have led to one list down the road. That was file a single carrier petition for bargining purposes with ASA. They would have had a solid chance of getting that approved. Instead they choose another path and we all no how things have ended up.
The sad thing is that prior to that meeting there was strong support to try and get Comair and ASA onboard. That support evaporated rapidly.
The sad thing is that Comair was so focused on a DOH merger with Delta that they let slide the one thing they could have done that might have greatly changed their current situation and perhaps have led to one list down the road. That was file a single carrier petition for bargining purposes with ASA. They would have had a solid chance of getting that approved. Instead they choose another path and we all no how things have ended up.
Here are the documents while you spin your BS....
http://www.rjdefense.com/dalmecmergsub.pdf
http://www.rjdefense.com/petition.pdf
http://www.rjdefense.com/ecpresin.pdf
02-27-2009, 08:08 PM
#255
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Joe could have moved on to a major a long time ago but instead he chose to stay and be bitter about it. Instead of taking a chance and moving on like the rest of us, he would rather try and just sue his way into a job. 
02-27-2009, 08:20 PM
#256
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Joe could have moved on to a major a long time ago but instead he chose to stay and be bitter about it. Instead of taking a chance and moving on like the rest of us, he would rather try and just sue his way into a job.
I'm not trying to "sue" my way into your job....I am going fight any attempt for you to take my job because of the current downturn....Deal with it.....
02-27-2009, 08:41 PM
#257
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
I'm not "bitter" about my choice....I have seen 3 downturns in this industry...The first when you were about 11, and the second when you were about 21....Timing has a lot to do with this business....
I'm not trying to "sue" my way into your job....I am going fight any attempt for you to take my job because of the current downturn....Deal with it.....
I'm not trying to "sue" my way into your job....I am going fight any attempt for you to take my job because of the current downturn....Deal with it.....
Instead of worrying about CPZ and DAL why dont you worry about ASA and Skywest. Maybe you can "fight" for integration there!
I am not worried about losing my job because of the downturn. This isnt about that, no matter how much you want to pretend it is, its about fixing the screwups of the past. I have job protections as is with a flowback agreement so if it was just about "job protection in a downturn" would we be working on integrating the CPZ list now?
02-27-2009, 10:29 PM
#258
veut gagner à la loterie
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Something tells me if this arguement was about combining ASA some wouldn't be whinning that its just not fair and would be rather estatic. But this is about Compass because of its unique situation and the fact that combining Compass is not about protecting mainline pilots in a furlough because we've already got the flow back, this is about recapturing mainline flying that the DC9 does and the 732 did but because there wasn't a suitable replacement and because of DCI's salary structure this flying was subcontracted to DCI and then it had to be scoped. How asinine. Sure its cheaper to have DCI fly the, but you're also limited in quantity and dare I say limited in your ability to control quality. Our goal here is to get DALPA to get the 71+ seat aircraft, that are the only viable replacements to the 732/DC9, back to DAL and give DAL as many as they want just as long as every last new 71+ seater is a Delta Air Lines aircraft.
And Super is exactly right, Coex is the prime example of why it is better to be at mainline than the subcontractor. There are a lot of guys that bypassed the flow through thinking their QOL at the top of Coex would be better than the bottom of CAL. From 2001-2003 while the flow backs were coming back these guys looked smart, then CAL took everyone back and decided to cut XJT bad. Had these same pilots gone back when they had a chance they would not have been at the bottom of CAL. Hell, CAL had a 3 year upgrade going to EWR 737 until this last downturn and I think EWR 756 A dropped to around 8 or 9 years. Its best to be in the big house.
I mean how many years as an ASA CRJ200 CA does it take to break 2nd year $72/hr DAL MD88 pay? 9 years? What about if that 2nd year pay is $86/hr 7ER? 14 years? Whatever the pay may be with E175 here, at least it will open the possibility of greater hiring and greater potential to reach larger aircraft with higher pay.
And Super is exactly right, Coex is the prime example of why it is better to be at mainline than the subcontractor. There are a lot of guys that bypassed the flow through thinking their QOL at the top of Coex would be better than the bottom of CAL. From 2001-2003 while the flow backs were coming back these guys looked smart, then CAL took everyone back and decided to cut XJT bad. Had these same pilots gone back when they had a chance they would not have been at the bottom of CAL. Hell, CAL had a 3 year upgrade going to EWR 737 until this last downturn and I think EWR 756 A dropped to around 8 or 9 years. Its best to be in the big house.
I mean how many years as an ASA CRJ200 CA does it take to break 2nd year $72/hr DAL MD88 pay? 9 years? What about if that 2nd year pay is $86/hr 7ER? 14 years? Whatever the pay may be with E175 here, at least it will open the possibility of greater hiring and greater potential to reach larger aircraft with higher pay.
02-27-2009, 10:55 PM
#259
veut gagner à la loterie
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Here is my question, do we still have that gentlemans agreement to order only Boeing jets?
I've often wondered if the reason the only viable 100 seat aircraft available today, the E190, "doesn't work" for Delta is more to do with Boeing not letting it work than just the plane.
If we acquire Compass, can we expand the Ejet fleet? Or will they have to be called the Boeing E-175 or Boeing E-195*? Is DAL playing by the rules of that former agreement anymore?
*Don't laugh, I've actually heard that some type of deal could be in the works as the 737 replacement is being pushed further and further away.
I've often wondered if the reason the only viable 100 seat aircraft available today, the E190, "doesn't work" for Delta is more to do with Boeing not letting it work than just the plane.
If we acquire Compass, can we expand the Ejet fleet? Or will they have to be called the Boeing E-175 or Boeing E-195*? Is DAL playing by the rules of that former agreement anymore?
*Don't laugh, I've actually heard that some type of deal could be in the works as the 737 replacement is being pushed further and further away.
02-28-2009, 02:56 AM
#260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,382
[quote=forgot to bid;568793]Here is my question, do we still have that gentlemans agreement to order only Boeing jets?
I've often wondered if the reason the only viable 100 seat aircraft available today, the E190, "doesn't work" for Delta is more to do with Boeing not letting it work than just the plane.
If we acquire Compass, can we expand the Ejet fleet? Or will they have to be called the Boeing E-175 or Boeing E-195*? Is DAL playing by the rules of that former agreement anymore?
*Don't laugh, I've actually heard that some type of deal could be in the works as the 737 replacement is being pushed further and further away.
I think the simple fact is that Delta does not want to be in this market. With every request since the DC-9's were retired in 91 for a scope relaxation the company has dangled the 100 seat carrat. The aircraft is always just a few months from a major order. 17 years later still no order.
I've often wondered if the reason the only viable 100 seat aircraft available today, the E190, "doesn't work" for Delta is more to do with Boeing not letting it work than just the plane.
If we acquire Compass, can we expand the Ejet fleet? Or will they have to be called the Boeing E-175 or Boeing E-195*? Is DAL playing by the rules of that former agreement anymore?
*Don't laugh, I've actually heard that some type of deal could be in the works as the 737 replacement is being pushed further and further away.
I think the simple fact is that Delta does not want to be in this market. With every request since the DC-9's were retired in 91 for a scope relaxation the company has dangled the 100 seat carrat. The aircraft is always just a few months from a major order. 17 years later still no order.
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