View Poll Results: Delta pilots: staple Compass to Delta if:
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll
Real Unofficial Poll: Staple Compass if:
02-23-2009, 08:08 AM
#151
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Those who do not want Compass know the quickest way to divert folks like us is to tell us fairy tales of agreements that ALPA National and Management could never sign off on. Then, they'll tell us they tried as they work behind the scenes to divest Compass and use it as a bargaining chip.
02-23-2009, 10:33 AM
#152
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Well, you see, for the MEC putting CPZ on the list derails one item they are working on, Spiting our MEC, as we both have the same MEC. This is going on now. They see the conflict of interest and are working to solve it another way.
To look at it another way, if we take the 76 seat flying we will be sued by many MEC's, it is a lot better not to have CPZ pilot's that are part of our MEC suing DALPA, our MEC and theirs.
To look at it another way, if we take the 76 seat flying we will be sued by many MEC's, it is a lot better not to have CPZ pilot's that are part of our MEC suing DALPA, our MEC and theirs.
02-23-2009, 11:19 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 354
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Well, you see, for the MEC putting CPZ on the list derails one item they are working on, Spiting our MEC, as we both have the same MEC. This is going on now. They see the conflict of interest and are working to solve it another way.
To look at it another way, if we take the 76 seat flying we will be sued by many MEC's, it is a lot better not to have CPZ pilot's that are part of our MEC suing DALPA, our MEC and theirs.
To look at it another way, if we take the 76 seat flying we will be sued by many MEC's, it is a lot better not to have CPZ pilot's that are part of our MEC suing DALPA, our MEC and theirs.
02-23-2009, 11:24 AM
#154
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
What it means is that pilots on the CPZ list represented by DALPA would be suing their own union. It creates a conflict of interest much like the one that ALPA national has. This one would be in house and pose much bigger problems. Hence the reason they are looking at giving CPZ their separate MEC.
02-23-2009, 11:45 AM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: New Hire
Posts: 255
Just to reiterate...This resolution is about the prevention and reverse of mainline flying erosion. We do not want to focus on putting more seats in CPZ aircraft. 1 seat of 200 seats, it doesn't matter. This is about ELIMINATING WHIPSAW, and getting CPZ guys mainline seniority numbers. If this is accomplished it is the first step in improvement of this profession. We need Delta support and CPZ support. I am a CPZ FO and I would be happy taking a 3 year furlough to get a mainline sen. number and stop management manipulation. This is NOT about Compass, this is about restoration of quality jobs at DELTA!!
02-23-2009, 12:06 PM
#156
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
What it means is that pilots on the CPZ list represented by DALPA would be suing their own union. It creates a conflict of interest much like the one that ALPA national has. This one would be in house and pose much bigger problems. Hence the reason they are looking at giving CPZ their separate MEC.
CPZ is one with our MEC now. We have one bargaining structure. There can not be a failure in DFR because we are one. A party can not sue itself.
If they are separate, THEN they can have a DFR claim.
What this divestiture really is a way to separate Compass so it can be used as a bargaining chip. It also makes one list a whole lot harder to obtain.
It is the Continental model all over again. It was bad then, the result was bad - - - - Why do we keep the same play book when we keep losing at this game
02-23-2009, 12:11 PM
#157
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by shadyops
If this is accomplished it is the first step in improvement of this profession.
Frankly, you should not have to take a furlough, nor should I. There is too damn much furloughing at one carrier within Delta, while there is hiring at another within our brand. Further, management should be able to obtain whatever airplane makes them the most money without ALPA jerrymandering to try to control the fleet buying decisions.
Frankly, with 11 regional aircraft and three mainline jets delivered during the previous quarter, ALPA sucks at buying airplanes.
ALPA should be focused on who flies the airplane and if there is a Delta airplane flying Delta passengers, the pilot should be a Delta pilot. As far as I am concerned, you are a Delta pilot and our union should be fighting to start your longevity ASAP.
02-23-2009, 12:33 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
To look at it another way, if we take the 76 seat flying we will be sued by many MEC's, it is a lot better not to have CPZ pilot's that are part of our MEC suing DALPA, our MEC and theirs.
If we take flying back from subcontractors, how do employees of said subcontractor sue our union?
02-23-2009, 12:37 PM
#159
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
OK, with ACL65's goading....
ALPA has a duty to represent ALL members EQUALLY.
If one member negotiates to harm another member (which is a violation of ALPA's own Constitution & Bylaws, its Administrative Manual and the Ford / Cooksey v. ALPA settlement agreement) then ALPA has breached its Duty of Fair Representation and the aggrieved member can try to obtain a resolution within ALPA. If that fails they then can bring a claim in a Court of appropriate jurisdiction.
However, Compass is part of the Delta MEC and their bargaining is within the Delta MEC. Maybe the Delta MEC wants to shift the responsibility of caring for Compass to National, but, by doing so:
ALPA has a duty to represent ALL members EQUALLY.
If one member negotiates to harm another member (which is a violation of ALPA's own Constitution & Bylaws, its Administrative Manual and the Ford / Cooksey v. ALPA settlement agreement) then ALPA has breached its Duty of Fair Representation and the aggrieved member can try to obtain a resolution within ALPA. If that fails they then can bring a claim in a Court of appropriate jurisdiction.
However, Compass is part of the Delta MEC and their bargaining is within the Delta MEC. Maybe the Delta MEC wants to shift the responsibility of caring for Compass to National, but, by doing so:
- The Delta MEC loses the ability to easily recapture the Embraer type
- The Delta MEC loses the ability to control CPZ bargaining
- The Delta MEC loses the votes of the CPZ pilots
- The CPZ pilots become yet another pilot group to conflict with all the others over scope issues
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-23-2009 at 01:19 PM.
02-23-2009, 12:45 PM
#160
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
This is 100% correct. I've lived through this once before at Coex. My bet is that Compass gets sold or IPO'd, the flow is cancelled, and that 76-seat jets will never come to mainline. We will never get 76-seat flying back from any of the DCI carriers that already have it. The only glimmer of hope we have is to get Compass here now. It is possible due to the unique situation that we now have and we can capture that and any additional 76-seat flying in the future. I've been writing my reps and it is very clear to me that this is NOT an important issue to them and will get very little attention by our current DALPA administration. Any resolutions will most likely go nowhere. When that happens, we need to focus on recalls and get people in there who will MAKE this an issue.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
