View Poll Results: Delta pilots: staple Compass to Delta if:
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Real Unofficial Poll: Staple Compass if:
02-22-2009, 06:37 PM
#141
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Sailing is correct. We can present the resolution, but it needs to bring all flying 71 seats and over back to the mainline ticket.
There are one or two individuals that will sue ALPA national and DALPA when we do this. They already think that our Section 1 and LOA's are in violation of their settlement, so it may be moot an if and when we go to court.
There are one or two individuals that will sue ALPA national and DALPA when we do this. They already think that our Section 1 and LOA's are in violation of their settlement, so it may be moot an if and when we go to court.
02-22-2009, 10:04 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: ERJ-175
Posts: 217
I've also heard of some sort of pending litigation in regards to the fact that there is one union representing two separate pilot groups/lists. I have nothing to substantiate such a claim, thus the reason I bring it up - does anyone else know about this? (i.e. the legalities of DALPA representing both DL/NW AND CP although they are two separate lists)
02-22-2009, 10:15 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by shadyops
Lee Moak will have had his way with CPZ by then. The time is now. The resolution has to be brought up in full force towards the end of March in all bases.
02-22-2009, 10:51 PM
#144
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by sailingfun
What is the strategy when the company simply says no we don't think we want to open the contract which is what they will say. What is the next step?
The answer is simply four words:
"Flaming bags of poo"
Subtle, yet gets the point across.
02-23-2009, 01:51 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
The answer is simply four words:
"Flaming bags of poo"
Subtle, yet gets the point across.
"Flaming bags of poo"
Subtle, yet gets the point across.
Don't get me wrong, I think we need to ask and push the issue. However we should form it as a scope question not a merger question. We go in and tell the company that we consider the use of the EMB170/175 outsourcing existing flying. The aircraft were used to replace the 737-200, 737-300 and some 727 flying at Delta and they have been used to replace the DC-9 flying at NWA. We tell the company that we want a phased in roll back of scope and the largest jet permitted would at DCI be the Bombardiar 70 seater. The proposal has to include both weight and seat restrictions to accomplish that. Management is going to say no. It however sets expectations and the tone for the next contract. There might also be another window to reopen the contract early where it can be brought up again. Think Alaska airlines!
By the way it is my understanding the Compass issue was raised in the negotiations for the JPWA and the company has already said no and stood by that. They will say no again. Most of the points I have seen put out to try and convince the company its in their best interest sound good on here but don't cost out in real life. We do however have to start now on setting the companies expectations on scope in 2013.
02-23-2009, 04:05 AM
#146
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I can tell you that in a good economy it makes no sense to put CPZ on the list. In a bad one, for a company that may want the ability to furlough, putting your biggest flow on the list will save money, and a lot of it.
02-23-2009, 04:28 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 73N CA
Posts: 474
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I don't have a specific answer. I do however believe that bringing Compass onboard without scoping all 76 seat flying and moving the weight limit back down on permitted aircraft to insure the 170/175 can only be operated at the mainline would be a big mistake.
Approaching them now sets the tone for section six negotiations when this contract expires. Setting expectations is important and for that reason I would support a resolution to scope all 170/175 flying. I would not support a resolution to only bring 36 aircraft over. We would regret that big time in the end.
One last point. You can't staple anyone now. There is a federal law involved. It would require that we follow ALPA merger policy. The list or lists involved in a merger would go to arbitration. Arbitration is always a crapshoot.
Approaching them now sets the tone for section six negotiations when this contract expires. Setting expectations is important and for that reason I would support a resolution to scope all 170/175 flying. I would not support a resolution to only bring 36 aircraft over. We would regret that big time in the end.
One last point. You can't staple anyone now. There is a federal law involved. It would require that we follow ALPA merger policy. The list or lists involved in a merger would go to arbitration. Arbitration is always a crapshoot.
Anything over 70 seats is flying a route that was at one time flown by a mainline aircraft. These aircraft are the company's replacement for that flying and it's currently being done by DCI.
This isn't about a staple of anybody. This is about holding the line on scope and correcting some of the relaxation we've given the company in past negotiations.
I think this is getting some attention, which means we're doing something right. The point, IMHO, was never to re-open negotiations, but to get this on the radar of DALPA going into 2012.
02-23-2009, 04:45 AM
#149
Gets ALL Days Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Sit down comedian.
Posts: 958
Originally Posted by SAABaroowski
you guys are out of your mind if you think it is just as hard to get hired at Compass as it is DAL/NWA ...................they are like every other regional out there....... the requirement is a warm body and willing to fly for free.........
Next time you jumpseat on Compass, dont forget to tell that pilot that came from United, or ATA, or Champion, or Air Tran, or TWA, that Compass is just like every other regional out there hiring warm bodies willing to fly for free.
02-23-2009, 06:20 AM
#150
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
ACL65:
For ALPA to negotiate all 70+ seat flying back to mainline, it would have to open negotiations with the ALPA carriers currently performing that flying. Management would have to renegotiate F4D agreements and airplanes would likely need to move Certificates. In other words - please consider goals that are achievable within our current framework.
Those who do not want Compass know the quickest way to divert folks like us is to tell us fairy tales of agreements that ALPA National and Management could never sign off on. Then, they'll tell us they tried as they work behind the scenes to divest Compass and use it as a bargaining chip.
For ALPA to negotiate all 70+ seat flying back to mainline, it would have to open negotiations with the ALPA carriers currently performing that flying. Management would have to renegotiate F4D agreements and airplanes would likely need to move Certificates. In other words - please consider goals that are achievable within our current framework.
Those who do not want Compass know the quickest way to divert folks like us is to tell us fairy tales of agreements that ALPA National and Management could never sign off on. Then, they'll tell us they tried as they work behind the scenes to divest Compass and use it as a bargaining chip.
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