Joe Merchant thread to bash ALPA & Delta
02-28-2009, 06:30 PM
#22
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
Please don't decertify....That removes the DFR lawsuit from the tool box...For that reason alone, I am against decertification at ASA even as it is actually starting to advocated by many former ALPA cheerleaders..
As far as fixing it, it is probably too late.....However the only way to "fix" it is to put everyone on the same "team"....That can only be done with a national seniority list, or at the very least a "brand scope seniority list"....A cross-bid scenario was first proposed back in 1995 at the first ALPA scope committee hearings...You know the one that was 4 or 5 committees ago....
Is any of this likely at this point? Probably not....Although the United pilots are trying for a national seniority list now that they are on life support...Amazing what mortality does to finding religion.....
How do you propose "fixing" ALPA....You and I were on the same page at one time...
As far as fixing it, it is probably too late.....However the only way to "fix" it is to put everyone on the same "team"....That can only be done with a national seniority list, or at the very least a "brand scope seniority list"....A cross-bid scenario was first proposed back in 1995 at the first ALPA scope committee hearings...You know the one that was 4 or 5 committees ago....
Is any of this likely at this point? Probably not....Although the United pilots are trying for a national seniority list now that they are on life support...Amazing what mortality does to finding religion.....
How do you propose "fixing" ALPA....You and I were on the same page at one time...
Make it easy for us. De-certify. Fact is that on some level there will be change in the next five years at the national level. I have already seen a change of some of the players.
02-28-2009, 06:31 PM
#23
Can't abide NAI
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
I'd rather be on the list at Delta than FDX and I have the choice. Nothing wrong with FDX flying or people, but they got lots of folks bidding back to the left seat, while getting two pilot airplanes, while the economy is in a recession, while the junior base is in China.
I like FDX a lot. I like Delta a little better, it's nice flying out of the place where your home is paid off. Besides, I have this rug that ties the room together. I like it.
I like FDX a lot. I like Delta a little better, it's nice flying out of the place where your home is paid off. Besides, I have this rug that ties the room together. I like it.
02-28-2009, 06:32 PM
#24
Can't abide NAI
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Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by satchip
So... about where would Bar be?? just give me an "ish" number.
02-28-2009, 06:34 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Make it easy for us. De-certify. Fact is that on some level there will be change in the next five years at the national level. I have already seen a change of some of the players.
02-28-2009, 06:38 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
They are more overstaffed than any of the legacy carriers. The only thing saving a lot of the jobs at the majors is the fact that we were all very lean from the 1113C era. We did not have enough time to get fat.
We will see GDP increase here later in the year in to next. It is not the next 12 months I am worried about it is after that that I am worried about.
We will see GDP increase here later in the year in to next. It is not the next 12 months I am worried about it is after that that I am worried about.
02-28-2009, 07:21 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Here is a letter from a former DHL pilot and former ALPA EVP....It is to the Air Tran pilots who are considering merging with ALPA...It is spot on and paints an accurate assessment of the situation...Bucking Bar, I believe you know who this pilot is.....
Originally Posted by 1515greenlight
A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.
In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.
Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.
The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.
I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.
Originally Posted by 1515greenlight
A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.
In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.
Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.
The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.
I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.
02-28-2009, 07:47 PM
#29
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
I agree....Bucking Bar is a great guy...But his job is in jeopardy...He is frustrated and I understand that frustration....ALPA does need help and Bucking Bar knows that too....
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
Obama and the Democratic Congress are going to push us into a second depression and all of this ranting will be moot....We will both be in the unemployment line......
02-28-2009, 08:42 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by Joemerchant
Bucking Bar, I believe you know who this pilot is.....
The Delta pilots would be crazy to decert ALPA at this point. Captain Moak is the easy front-runner to be the next ALPA President in less than two years. Throwing away that kind of influence wouldn't be wise.
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