I agree.

Get all flying to mainline and take perhaps the top 50% of the Eagle pilots. The rest can be offered preferential interviews once the furloughees are back. That way 100-seaters can be flown by mainline where they should be and the furloughees and a substantial percentage of Eagle pilots can benefit.

The bottom half of the eagle pilots would surely understand that sacrificing their low-wage RJ F/O positions for an chance at interview for a decent job sometime in the future is the BEST for this profession. Most are young and can afford this, while those older and more senior cannot.

All in all it's the best possible scenario.

 

While most of the young guys (while i fit the age group, i do not agree with many of the younger guy's general perspectives and general sense of entitlement) do not understand is that the days of going to a regional for 3-4 years and moving on to a major is pretty much gone.

Guys who have given up scope have for whatever the reasons they voted to do so, (pay, other incentives, greed, complacency, ego) have nearly irreprebly crippled the prospect for my generation (mid 20's) to have a serious career in this industry.
NO PILOT GROUP SHOULD ENTERTAIN THE IDEA OF GIVING UP ANY MORE SCOPE. We need to fight to get it back. And that is going to be the fight of our careers, spanning a couple decades.

In the future, in Mainline contracts, the pilots have to fight for min fleet size conditions with ratios of mainline to express getting more and more favorable as contract after contract in the future are signed. This is more important than anything else, including pay raises mainly at the senior level. Pay scales need to be smoothed out more, allowing more pay while still junior.

I seriously could write an essay and what I said above was just a blurb of what I'm thinking. I know 100 pros and cons to what I suggested, so please realize that I'm advocating something that I understand is extrordinarily hard to attain.

 

How noble of you to propose sacrificing the bottom 50%. I'm sure they will jump at the chance to have no job and just the chance to interview sometime in the future.

 

"Selling out" the bottom 50% of your own list??? Wow, I bet you would be a popular "guy" amongst those "sacrificial lambs" that make up the bottom 50% of the list

Besides.....when AA has 2000+ pilots on furlough, where do you see "EGL's chosen ones" - AKA Top 50% sitting on the AA seniority list?? When you have 2000+ AA pilots on the street waiting to come back, and you want to put another 1500+ "chosen" EGL pilots in the mix.....good luck on that mess.

Seeing that it's been 6+ years and AA still has that many guys/gals on the street, the EGL guys/gals would be waiting for many years to see the light at the end of that tunnel

All and all....sounds like an unrealistic pipe dream.

 

I say go APA!

 

Yeah he's a real hero. Just ask him where he thinks those Eagle pilots we "take" should go on our seniority list. DOH. That's the same demand they have made every other time we have approached them with attempts to merge the seniority lists. RJ captain to 767 international captain. Get real.

I guess we should expect nothing less from a group that tried to steal away our 80 flying under the failed 80-80-80 campaign.

 

Actually, MANY are willing to do just that...........even some that post here !

I'm just agreeing with what they claim to want. These pilots don't want any more RJ's at their company and agree that all flying should be done by mainline as the APA demands. In their wisdom, borne of several months or a year or two as RJ F/O's and bolstered by discussions at the dinner table with mom and dad (they still live with their parents), they somehow fail to realize that moving all flying to mainline WILL come with some sacrifices, at least at AMR.

That means the need for FAR less of the pilots who currently fly those RJ's as many would indeed be parked (some immeadiately and the rest gradually). Since this IS a seniority based business, it would only be reasonable to see that those at the bottom half would be odd men out. I've heard from many here how they'd be willing to sacrifice their low-wage RJ F/O position for the opportunity to get a mainline pilot job, but unless their fantasy somehow included that they'd be AUTOMATICALLY hired along with only those planes that DO make the transition, they didn't think things thru.

AMR will not just move ALL those planes over to AA. Since they won't be doing that, how can all those pilots expect to have seats there when the music stops here ?

Remember, in the hypothetical case that AA did take all our flying and even some of our planes, AA pilots are still out on the street and THEY would be brought back to do flying before any of the bottom kids here would be..........and SHOULD, after all it will be THEIR airline and seniority list then. It would be MANY, MANY years before most of them had an opportunity to reclaim a postion on the bottom of the "new" AA pilot list reflying a larger RJ even if they were promised future employment.

Oh, I get it...............they think that AA will just take all our planes and our pilots, find a bunch of money to grow the airline by adding 200 new 100-seaters, boost pay for all, recall all furloughees and everyone will go into the sunshine holding hands and thinking what a wonderful life it is now.

Well, in that case, perhaps it's time to ask mom to pass the green beans and turn up the volume on the TV because Leave it to Beaver is coming on and since we're in fantasy land where everything always works the way we want it and there is never any down side to our desires, we might as well enjoy it while we can....................oh and pass the butter, please.

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It IS an unrealistic pipe dream for many of the new kids on the block. They profess their fervant desires, but fail to consider the REAL ramifications of those desires.

That is indeed what is known as a "pipe dream".

IF the APA were to claim all current Eagle flying, let's consider what WOULD likely happen.

That flying is now MAINLINE flying under APA control. Let's not even argue what pay and benefits would be invloved, because that just complicates this discussion.

Since that flying is now theirs, their FIRST priority is to get their furloughed pilots employment...........and it SHOULD be. It's THEIR FLYING. It would be logical to assume since the majority of Eagle's little 37 and 44 seat guaranteed money loser RJ's (and eventually the 50-seaters) would be parked or replaced rapidly. That would mean as those aircraft are removed from Eagle during a transition period that would be virtually certain to occur, they'd be replaced by those mainline 737 orders already under way and new aircraft that might actually make money (especially under the increased costs of a new AA pilots contract) like 100-seaters. Those new jobs (MAINLINE jobs) would be offered to AA furloughees.

A "transition period" would involve the downsizing of Eagle with a simultaneous upsizing of AA as AA reclaims their former flying with new aircraft and Eagle parks their hopeless losers (and furloughs). Eventually, (say 18-36 months) Eagle is reduced to its 47 CRJ-700's (it exercises its 22 orders recently won on greivance) which is about 500 pilots and perhaps they'll still have an equal number of 50-seaters to fly to places that can still somewhat support them as they need frequency.

We're at about 1000 Eagle pilots now.

Then the "transition period" ends and Eagle disolves and is now part of AA. By then, most if not all the remaining AA furloughees are back who want to come back and Eagle pilots are likely merged onto the AA list or are now actually "one airline". About 550 of those pilots ALREADY are on the AA list and the remaining would likely get stapled with some fence protection if they were senior Eagle Rights captains (minor details involving a couple of hundred pilots at most by then).

The bottom 1500 Eagle pilots ?

Well, you figure it out.

At that point they may or may not have guaranteed right of employment, but THAT is NOT the function of the APA to negotiate, it is Eagle ALPA. My guess is they'd try and may win that, but just as likley the best that can be offered is preferential interview at AA.

Remember ! They were furloughed from Eagle who was liquidiating (dissolving) itself and NOT from AA, So why would they have automatic employment rights at AA (again, especially if the APA's responsibility is not pilots from OTHER carriers) ?

Of course, perhaps the "Leave it to Beaver" scenario is a better fantasy to cling to for junior Eagle pilots. You know the saying, "be careful for what you wish for ?".

Well, many of them wish for "NO MORE RJ's at Eagle !".

Sadly, many of them fail to consider the realities and ramifications of their wishes, but you can't blame them as most have a couple of years in this industry at most and don't know s%$t from shinola.

 

No phallocranial boy, that is not what I think and not what would happen (see previous post). Most of the pilots who would end up at AA after a transition period already have AA numbers and the rest would be placed as a result of negotiation or more likely arbitration. Staple with fences is most likely for them.

You and your 80-80-80 fantasies must be driving you insane, for you certainly already are.


Actually, I like the idea of 737-73.7-73.7 !

We'll call up Arpey and offer to fly your 737's for $73.70/hour with a guarantee of 73.7 hours per month !

I'm sure he'll jump right on it.....................jeez, what a hopeless fruitcake you are !

 

Let's aim higher. 777, 77 hours, $77/hr