Fly4hire

Prior to the merger one of the reasons previously given the 747-200 freight operation was kept going was to protect the NRT slots for the 787. Now that the -200 is going away by years end, together with a draw down of 747-400 flying (as recently announced in the DAL-N flying bulletin) we have a significant shortfall of aircraft to fly those slots.

I'm not sure of within what time frame, or what percentage or routes have to be flown to be maintained, but that the basic premise is "use them or loose them". Given that one of the main reasons for the merger was the ability of DAL to gain rapid access to a mature Pacific network, one has to assume the intent is to fly and preserve those routes that will be vacant shortly. If they are not going to be flown by the (fenced) 747-400 and -200 acft, or replaced with additional A330 flying, they will be flown by 777, and 767 from DAL-S.

DAL-N pilots face displacements as a result of this draw down, and DAL-S stands to benefit by gaining pre-merger protected flying from the DAL-N side. Since the routes flown and the aircraft that fly them are inextricably linked, any additional routes flown to or through NRT by DAL Intl acft could be viewed as the internal outsourcing of DAL-N flying to DAL-S prior to SOC.

If we are all one airline and pilot group, how do we reconcile the asymmetry where one pre-merger group could potentially be allowed to disadvantage the other, while represented by the same MEC?

While the first AE post SOC will see this somewhat self correct, the DAL-N pilots will have a limited number of acft to displace into pre-SOC, while DAL-S pilots might actually see pre-SOC International advancements as a result that may not be available as vacancy to DAL-N pilots post-SOC.

At what point should there be recognition that protected DAL-N flying has been shifted to DAL-S flying pre-SOC (or general DAL system flying post SOC). And what should the remedy be?

At what point do we apply SLI award parameters that address replacement of acft for protected flying? I would submit the shifting of any NRT routes and resultant aircraft from one pre-merger group to another prior to SOC crosses this threshold.

johnso29

Oh boy. Here we go.

acl65pilot

FLY, it is my understanding that DAL-S can operate the routes to and from US territories and states to NRT. What we have not been able to operate (until SOC) is the intra-Asia flying. Hence the reason DAL-S took over the NRT-GUM flight.
Also if you noticed Japan is trying to diminish the effectiveness of the Fifth Freedom rights.

Fly4, I also feel that the 12.31.09 date was used for this flying for one reason, it is best case to mitigate the effects of all of this.
Also remember that DAL-S flying is going to be performed by the DC-9, the 330's are doing a lot of flying out of ATL, and NYC, and there will be more to come. After SOC as they pair down some of the bases, your group will have the ability to bid whatever they want, where every they want, because if is more likely you will see surplus bids (displacements) of current basing to new bases.
The fact that they have waited so long to furlough or not to furlough should give good credence to the fact that they would like both sides to be one. Route is looking at this as the best way to maximize the efficiencies as soon as possible.
I think we can all be gentlemen and deal with what every concerns and issues we all have professionally.

newKnow

Fly,

I think in that first AE, post SOC there will be no protected flying for anyone. If ANC is done beforehand, there will be a big correction after. With all the airplanes scheduled to move I wouldn't worry. We'll ALL be disadvantaged next year this time.

acl65pilot

I would not be surprised to see the fences lifted either.

Fly4hire

Of course DAL can fly whatever they want within the network - the question now is protected replacement flying per the SLI and any remedies.

DAL can park all the 747's and give up Asia altogether if they want. If they park protected DAL-N acft and replace them with protected DAL-S acft on former DAL-N routes we have an issue that has to be addressed.

The argument will be made that the -200's were going away soon as it was. Perhaps, however if they owed there continued existence to be place holders for slots for the now delayed protected DAL-N 787's that will *now* be flown by protected DAL-S acft there is a credible argument the protected SLI seats go with the acft assigned to fly the routes.

Frankly I'm surprised this has not been formally addressed by the MEC yet. Even if PERPS, SLIPS, PMA's and lowered ALV's mitigate any displacements the question of replacement flying still has to be addressed.

Fly4hire

There is nothing to indicate protected flying will be lifted post SOC. This has to be agreed to by the MEC and it has not even been discussed as far as I know.

chuck h

How would that be possible?

Ferd149

I had a short discussion with a 777FO in NRT (walk between customs and the busses) about this. I talked about the 757 flying and how the trip was built and he said he had heard that there may be a SEA 767 base to do away with the deadheads.

While I've heard the same, on here mostly but other places as well, it got me thinking.........what difference would it make? Why worry about the deadhead, when the entire trip is trip hour credit. I could fly the legs that are deadheads or not but the trip is worth the same. Look back when we only got 1/2 for deadheading (bankruptcy item since reversed), the trip still paid the same and why you listed the Asia trips above "avoid deadhead".

I guess what I'm trying to say is a lot of what Delta management wants to do in Asia may be moot when they really get into it. Our guys were real smart (and cheep) and I'm not sure there is much blood left in the turnip.

Ferd

newKnow

Oaah. I see. You are trying to get to the -400.