That commute might get a little harder...
05-12-2009 | 11:31 AM
#21
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
If the FAA or airlines intend to regulate my off-duty schedule, well then it becomes a duty obligation and I will need to get paid for it.
Pilots who commute from low-cost towns to places like EWR/NY will not cheerfully relocate their families into the ghetto and live in NY on $25K. I think most would quit, I certainly would.
Another option would be space positive travel to work...on the latest flight which will get you there. That would save you from planning backup flights.
Pilots who commute from low-cost towns to places like EWR/NY will not cheerfully relocate their families into the ghetto and live in NY on $25K. I think most would quit, I certainly would.
Another option would be space positive travel to work...on the latest flight which will get you there. That would save you from planning backup flights.
05-12-2009 | 11:53 AM
#22
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05-12-2009 | 12:23 PM
#23
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From: B737 CA
Guys, read the human performance group report, it's in the public docket on the NTSB website. The FO commuted in on FedEx; the pilots and another commuter on the SEA-MEM leg said she slept, and she told the CA of the MEM-EWR leg that she slept. She was then observed sleeping in the crew room throughout the day (her showtime was 1330 but their first roundtrip was cancelled so both her and the CA hung out in the crew room all day). Now, none of that is very good rest - but from the report it's clear that there was more than enough time to get good rest if they'd had a place to do so. Neither had a crashpad.
05-12-2009 | 12:43 PM
#24
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From: 73 CA EWR
Even if both pilots had received all the sleep that everyone would agree allowed them to operate at their optimum level of performance, would the result have been different?
I'm curious just how much ice they accumulated on the wing. Did not other aircraft go through the area just prior to the accident?
I'm curious just how much ice they accumulated on the wing. Did not other aircraft go through the area just prior to the accident?
05-12-2009 | 02:18 PM
#25
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Even if both pilots had received all the sleep that everyone would agree allowed them to operate at their optimum level of performance, would the result have been different?
I'm curious just how much ice they accumulated on the wing. Did not other aircraft go through the area just prior to the accident?
I'm curious just how much ice they accumulated on the wing. Did not other aircraft go through the area just prior to the accident?
Crews that are fatigued make more mistakes every time. Every accident is a chain of mistakes. It only takes catching one of the mistakes to break the chain and prevent the accident. My worst performances have always been when very tired. One eye opener is serving as a relief pilot international. You get a gods eye view and see all the mistakes. The rest the crew has received is directly proportional to the mistakes made. Just one of them catching the airspeed reduction would have saved the day.
05-12-2009 | 03:09 PM
#26
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From: Still Swinging props!
Hmph. It would take me several days off to recharge, shake the fatigue. Whether they slept prior to the accident flight is irrelevant, imho. After being jerked around by crew scheduling for a week or so, I'm toast. I could get all the sleep I could handle, but feel like a hollow shell of a zombie. Glad that's all behind me now.
05-12-2009 | 03:19 PM
#27
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From: 320 Left soon middle
Hmph. It would take me several days off to recharge, shake the fatigue. Whether they slept prior to the accident flight is irrelevant, imho. After being jerked around by crew scheduling for a week or so, I'm toast. I could get all the sleep I could handle, but feel like a hollow shell of a zombie. Glad that's all behind me now.
05-12-2009 | 03:24 PM
#28
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From: 73 CA EWR
Hmph. It would take me several days off to recharge, shake the fatigue. Whether they slept prior to the accident flight is irrelevant, imho. After being jerked around by crew scheduling for a week or so, I'm toast. I could get all the sleep I could handle, but feel like a hollow shell of a zombie. Glad that's all behind me now.
05-12-2009 | 05:07 PM
#30
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From: The Beginnings
The crash was at night and the FO took a redeye. Depending on her schedule she could have had all day to nap.
Seems to me we need to know the schedule of the pilots before we can point fingers.
Furthermore, why would you worry about the FAA changing rest requirements? They've proven time and again that it's not going to happen and the NTSB has no teeth.
Seems to me we need to know the schedule of the pilots before we can point fingers.
Furthermore, why would you worry about the FAA changing rest requirements? They've proven time and again that it's not going to happen and the NTSB has no teeth.
You're right about needing to know the schedules first, which have been fleshed out more now than when I originally posted. Looks like the pilot "plan" was to commute on a redeye, sleep in the crew room, then show up for work. If I got that right, then I'd have say it sounds like poor judgment that started at the beginning of the commute on the pilots own time.
I'm not worried about the FAA changing jack squat. I WISH they'd listen to the NTSB and do so, even if it's not pertinent in this incident. This has been on the NSTB top ten "urgent action" list for at least 5 years. Not holding my breath though.
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