SWA TA narrowly rejected
06-05-2009 | 06:47 AM
#33
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From: 767A (Ret)
06-05-2009 | 06:53 AM
#34
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Another way to look at this is SWA almost negotiated the best contract in history. For an employer the best contract is one that passes at 50% + 1. They only missed out by 96 votes out of nearly 6000. Isn't that kinda telling or am I way off the mark here?
06-05-2009 | 10:22 AM
#39
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From: B737/Capt
The million dollar question: Why didn't it pass?
I honestly think that a lot of FO's are as mad at the Union as they are about anything.
The FO's I talked with really didn't like the introduction of more seniority based privileges into the open time and reserve system. That wasn't the company, that was Swapa. Many voted no to send a message to the Union.
I also think that if the company had simply grandfathered the Lance's this thing would have passed. They only needed to change 48 votes.
Everyone had some issue that was nagging them. Too many changes from the last contract seems to be the biggest problem. Too many pilots had their cheese moved, and instead of risking searching for new cheese, they voted to put the cheese back where it was.
I also thought SWAPA did a very poor job explaining their negotiating positions and why/where they got their vector from.
I honestly think that a lot of FO's are as mad at the Union as they are about anything.
The FO's I talked with really didn't like the introduction of more seniority based privileges into the open time and reserve system. That wasn't the company, that was Swapa. Many voted no to send a message to the Union.
I also think that if the company had simply grandfathered the Lance's this thing would have passed. They only needed to change 48 votes.
Everyone had some issue that was nagging them. Too many changes from the last contract seems to be the biggest problem. Too many pilots had their cheese moved, and instead of risking searching for new cheese, they voted to put the cheese back where it was.
I also thought SWAPA did a very poor job explaining their negotiating positions and why/where they got their vector from.
Great question and post! I also believe the FO's are angry (Ya think?) and for other reasons than have been stated recently. You still have a group of younger FO's (and some younger captains) who lose sleep every night about the age 60 rule being changed. By gosh they had expectations and someone is going to pay! Those senior guys supported the change to 65 therefore my expectations have been damaged and I'll show them. BTW, I neither supported nor opposed the rule change but after the legacies pensions disappeared (most not all) I knew that their older pilots would now switch sides. Expectations vs. Reality and that movement of cheesey thingy.
Oscar
There are obviously many more things but nobody mentions the age 60 anger anymore.
06-06-2009 | 05:02 AM
#40
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From: B-737 / FO
Hey Murano,
You seem to be in the mood for jousting so I'll bite. Since I don't pick up much extra unless it happens to work perfect or it is done in a monthly overlap situation I can't speak for all those senior captains who have been left with nothing to pick up. I also don't work weekends (yes I am fortunate)so I don't have any "trashy" trips to give the lances. I personally would love to see the Lance Captain program continue and benefit all those you mentioned. I would however like to see the elimination of the abuse that occurs on a regular basis. Like a senior reserve FO picking up a "juicy" two day (i.e. max block/pay) up against his three day reserve block therefore making him/her unable to be assigned a normal three day reserve assignment. How did he get this two day? His Lance captain buddy bid it and gave it specifically to him (often in multiple weeks) allowing him to sit at home during his three day block. Who had to work that three day he should have been able to be assigned? Yeah! One of his fellow pilots (FO) that was senior to him but because he wasn't friends with a Lance he gets to work. Talk about an "I got mine" attitude.
Did they do anything illegal? Not technically but perhaps this example and others might give the company a reason to at least modify the LC program. Just a thought.
I will state the fact again that there is no extra flying (captains trips) for the Lances to pick up therefore giving away their FO trips might be a little bit risky. The company doesn't need the "oil" anymore or at least not as much.
I am just saying........
Oscar
You seem to be in the mood for jousting so I'll bite. Since I don't pick up much extra unless it happens to work perfect or it is done in a monthly overlap situation I can't speak for all those senior captains who have been left with nothing to pick up. I also don't work weekends (yes I am fortunate)so I don't have any "trashy" trips to give the lances. I personally would love to see the Lance Captain program continue and benefit all those you mentioned. I would however like to see the elimination of the abuse that occurs on a regular basis. Like a senior reserve FO picking up a "juicy" two day (i.e. max block/pay) up against his three day reserve block therefore making him/her unable to be assigned a normal three day reserve assignment. How did he get this two day? His Lance captain buddy bid it and gave it specifically to him (often in multiple weeks) allowing him to sit at home during his three day block. Who had to work that three day he should have been able to be assigned? Yeah! One of his fellow pilots (FO) that was senior to him but because he wasn't friends with a Lance he gets to work. Talk about an "I got mine" attitude.
Did they do anything illegal? Not technically but perhaps this example and others might give the company a reason to at least modify the LC program. Just a thought. I will state the fact again that there is no extra flying (captains trips) for the Lances to pick up therefore giving away their FO trips might be a little bit risky. The company doesn't need the "oil" anymore or at least not as much.
I am just saying........
Oscar
It's obvious you never sit on reserve either. You make the wrong assumption that it's only Lance's that are giving away two days or turns. Also, just becuase people are picking up two day trips from their "Lance Captain Buddies" doesn't mean they aren't getting used on reserve. I've sat reserve off and on for almost two years now and I have flown all but a handful of days. I don't have any "Lance Captain Buddies", but if there is something legal for me to pick up out of trip trade/giveaway on my days off then I pick it up.
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