Flight Captain Arrested at NN Airport
07-26-2009, 07:13 AM
#71
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
TSA intefering with your duties is against federal law too right? Interference with the duties of the flight crew? Again - I'd like to see their charter where it spells out that they are suppose to be conducting these kind of checks.
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
The CFR's are all online... You complain about them so much, why not just go look it up.
07-26-2009, 08:57 AM
#72
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 296
Originally Posted by boilerpilot
They shouldn't have to have in depth knowledge of what we do in order to respect us. I respect soldiers, physics professors, fire fighters, and doctors without having to have an intimate knowledge of their jobs. In fact, I would argue that, given their known attitude of disdain, contempt, and demeaning disrespect for us, if we were to educate them on what we do, they might feel empowered to a point where they think that because they could "check those stupid panels for contraband", that our job isn't that hard. I am always courteous to TSA screeners, but I will never take any kind of guff from them with regards to my job or rights. It's not their job to know what this panel does, or what that opening is, or what that flap does. Their job is to screen people both entering secure areas and to ensure that people in SIDA areas are following correct SIDA procedures. They have the right to check the interior of an aircraft from a security standpoint, but their check (done on their own time) has nothing to do with my job. They are not qualified to inspect the interior of a gear well and know what belongs and what doesn't.
Oh, and if they WERE to stick little pieces of cloth on my aircraft, I WOULD immediately call the real security enforcers: the police.
Oh, and if they WERE to stick little pieces of cloth on my aircraft, I WOULD immediately call the real security enforcers: the police.
07-26-2009, 09:05 AM
#73
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
Well, there are a number of things wrong here that I can see.
1. The pilot is NOT required to talk when walking through security.
2. The TSA has ZERO authority to arrest you. Any outside "local" law enforcement would be out of their jurisdiction, so I would not comply with that either. Only the Airport Police have the authority to arrest you.
3. If the pilot allowed the TSA to "arrest" him, the TSA is wrong and the pilot is wrong for allowing it to happen. If this is the case, the pilot need to file charges.
The TSA play games every way they can. The DO observe preflights. The do where ID badges that have pictures of animals. (One in CVG has a picture of a dog. Still waiting to see him in a secure area. I am going to detain him until the police arrive with much.....um, aggressiveness.)
In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.
They will stand near the "people shredders". If you use one with the "baggage shredder" attached and don't have a bag, they will pull themselves through the baggage portion and chase your butt down. I know someone this happened to.
Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.
That last one has happened to me 20 times, easy. Well, from now on, they will wait outside on the jet way or up at the boarding area while I look for them.
Be careful. Know what you they can and can't do. I tolerate ZERO crap from them, probably because I worked intelligence in the Army and have been through more background checks than they even know exist.
1. The pilot is NOT required to talk when walking through security.
2. The TSA has ZERO authority to arrest you. Any outside "local" law enforcement would be out of their jurisdiction, so I would not comply with that either. Only the Airport Police have the authority to arrest you.
3. If the pilot allowed the TSA to "arrest" him, the TSA is wrong and the pilot is wrong for allowing it to happen. If this is the case, the pilot need to file charges.
The TSA play games every way they can. The DO observe preflights. The do where ID badges that have pictures of animals. (One in CVG has a picture of a dog. Still waiting to see him in a secure area. I am going to detain him until the police arrive with much.....um, aggressiveness.)
In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.
They will stand near the "people shredders". If you use one with the "baggage shredder" attached and don't have a bag, they will pull themselves through the baggage portion and chase your butt down. I know someone this happened to.
Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.
That last one has happened to me 20 times, easy. Well, from now on, they will wait outside on the jet way or up at the boarding area while I look for them.
Be careful. Know what you they can and can't do. I tolerate ZERO crap from them, probably because I worked intelligence in the Army and have been through more background checks than they even know exist.
07-26-2009, 10:19 AM
#74
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Mason32
The CFR's are all online... You complain about them so much, why not just go look it up.
I'll bet you never bothered to read the entire tax code. I know the pubs pretty well that I deal with on a daily basis - but thanks for the information.USMCFLYR
07-26-2009, 11:22 AM
#75
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 326
"A pilot approached the checkpoint. I spoke to him, but he did not speak back," Bell's complaint says. "As he was putting his items in the tray, I tried to reposition his items before they went through the X-ray. The pilot them squeezed my hand very tight and shoved my hand back away from the tray that his items were in. I then called to make a complaint."
07-26-2009, 11:26 AM
#76
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
The TSA play games every way they can. The DO observe preflights. The do where ID badges that have pictures of animals. (One in CVG has a picture of a dog. Still waiting to see him in a secure area. I am going to detain him until the police arrive with much.....um, aggressiveness.)
In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.
07-26-2009, 11:43 AM
#77
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
Well, there are a number of things wrong here that I can see.
1. The pilot is NOT required to talk when walking through security.
1. The pilot is NOT required to talk when walking through security.
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
2. The TSA has ZERO authority to arrest you. Any outside "local" law enforcement would be out of their jurisdiction, so I would not comply with that either. Only the Airport Police have the authority to arrest you.
Wrong
and wrong again.... multiple law enforcement agencies have arrest authority at our nations airports... at the very minimum it would be the city you are in, the state you are in, the port authority if any, and then there would be several federal agencies that all have arrest authority at airports... not to mention the numerous private security people with what are called "special police" powers... but they mostly work access gates for ground vehicles.
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
3. If the pilot allowed the TSA to "arrest" him, the TSA is wrong and the pilot is wrong for allowing it to happen. If this is the case, the pilot need to file charges.
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
The TSA play games every way they can. The DO observe preflights. The do where ID badges that have pictures of animals. (One in CVG has a picture of a dog. Still waiting to see him in a secure area. I am going to detain him until the police arrive with much.....um, aggressiveness.)
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
They will stand near the "people shredders". If you use one with the "baggage shredder" attached and don't have a bag, they will pull themselves through the baggage portion and chase your butt down. I know someone this happened to.
Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.
That last one has happened to me 20 times, easy. Well, from now on, they will wait outside on the jet way or up at the boarding area while I look for them.
Be careful. Know what you they can and can't do. I tolerate ZERO crap from them, probably because I worked intelligence in the Army and have been through more background checks than they even know exist.
Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.
That last one has happened to me 20 times, easy. Well, from now on, they will wait outside on the jet way or up at the boarding area while I look for them.
Be careful. Know what you they can and can't do. I tolerate ZERO crap from them, probably because I worked intelligence in the Army and have been through more background checks than they even know exist.
Big deal.... deal with it.
07-26-2009, 03:49 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Mason32
Yeah, and they try to slip into the crew/staff elevators at airports like JFK and DCA without ID showing while in plain clothes too...
Big deal.... deal with it.
Try to have a little tact Mason. It was just FYI. Chill.
07-26-2009, 04:57 PM
#79
Rubber dogsh#t out of HKG
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Senior Seat Cushion Tester Extraordinaire
Posts: 620
Originally Posted by PILOTGUY
Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.
07-26-2009, 06:59 PM
#80
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: ERJ CAPT
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by rickair7777
This is a specific limit to their authority when it comes to observing a pre-flight...
They can also legally ask you "what are you looking for", but only in the context of security NOT in the context of ensuring the airplane is ready for flight. There is a very specific correct answer to that question, verbatim out of the TSA's handbook. I'm not going to repeat it on a public forum, but if you are a 121 pilot and don't know the answer to this question you should find out before you get fined for not knowing.
If a TSA agent is asking about systems, etc you don't really have to discuss that with them. They are probably just curious though...they don't have the vaguest clue about how to evaluate what you are doing.
They can also legally ask you "what are you looking for", but only in the context of security NOT in the context of ensuring the airplane is ready for flight. There is a very specific correct answer to that question, verbatim out of the TSA's handbook. I'm not going to repeat it on a public forum, but if you are a 121 pilot and don't know the answer to this question you should find out before you get fined for not knowing.
If a TSA agent is asking about systems, etc you don't really have to discuss that with them. They are probably just curious though...they don't have the vaguest clue about how to evaluate what you are doing.
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