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Old 10-04-2009 | 10:11 AM
  #51  
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Default Save the Profession / Stop race to bottom

Congress can do it.

Legislation can cut the Gordian Knot of scope and safety by simply outlawing the outsourcing/subcontracting of FAR 121 passenger flying to other companies. All flying advertised to flying public to be done by pilots working for the certificate holder, even if it is in a Ce-402.

Last edited by 727gm; 10-04-2009 at 10:17 AM. Reason: add an indefinite article for clarity, and an adverb
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Old 10-04-2009 | 10:16 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
Aren't all Virgin pilots new hires and who would you blame in a start up?
Since Virgin is a startup, a union has not been on property long enough to negotiate a contract. Just as when SWA started they were below industry standards. But the rest of the companies have had time.
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Old 10-04-2009 | 10:17 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by 727gm
Congress can do it.

Legislation can cut the Gordian Knot of scope and safety by simply outlawing the outsourcing/subcontracting of FAR 121 passenger flying to other companies. All flying advertised to flying public to be done by pilots working for the certificate holder, even if it is in a Ce-402.
I agree, but don't think it will happen.
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Old 10-04-2009 | 11:06 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by cgtpilot
Nice thought but the corp world is such a small piece of the pie. You typically get your 1-3 guys in each 121 major class. If your so happy with your bizjet just logon to bizjetpilotcentral.com and talk about your high starting pay and slow climbing top end pay 365/24/7 schedules (the majority of the bizjet jobs, not the Fortune 50 strech CRJ jobs). In the end, the majors want prior 121 or military officers in their left seats, period. Get over it, your CJ5++++xls X isn't what they want, sorry. But hey you've got great starting pay right!?!
It's quite impressive how misinformed you are!
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Old 10-04-2009 | 12:57 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by 727gm
.
Last edited by 727gm : Today at 01:17 PM. Reason: add an indefinite article for clarity, and an adverb

As if I had a clue what and indefinite article is.
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Old 10-04-2009 | 01:09 PM
  #56  
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From: A-320A
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Originally Posted by 727gm
Congress can do it.

Legislation can cut the Gordian Knot of scope and safety by simply outlawing the outsourcing/subcontracting of FAR 121 passenger flying to other companies. All flying advertised to flying public to be done by pilots working for the certificate holder, even if it is in a Ce-402.
That would have to be worded very carefully, because a third party contractor could in fact work for the certificate holder depending how the company is set up.
In DAL's case, DAL Airlines is the parent of DAL holding. A pesky organizational chart could get around simple wording.
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Old 10-04-2009 | 05:01 PM
  #57  
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From: 747-400 Captain
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Originally Posted by cgtpilot
Nice thought but the corp world is such a small piece of the pie. You typically get your 1-3 guys in each 121 major class. If your so happy with your bizjet just logon to bizjetpilotcentral.com and talk about your high starting pay and slow climbing top end pay 365/24/7 schedules (the majority of the bizjet jobs, not the Fortune 50 strech CRJ jobs). In the end, the majors want prior 121 or military officers in their left seats, period. Get over it, your CJ5++++xls X isn't what they want, sorry. But hey you've got great starting pay right!?!
As the others have said, you are terribly misinformed. Most corporate operaters have starting salaries 3 to 4 times higher than regionals. But most importantly, new corporate pilots are not wrecking the profession they hope to attain by accepting starvation wages. Regional pilots are. Major pilots have to accept some responsibility for caving on scope, but the pilots who accept the unacceptable are every bit to blame.

Carl
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Old 10-04-2009 | 05:10 PM
  #58  
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From: 747-400 Captain
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Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
Most regionals hire 'future captains' as well.
No they don't. They hire ANYONE who will accept wages that need to be supplemented with food stamps.

Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
They want to know about your decision making and pic time and such.
They may want to know about that, but not nearly as much as knowing whether you'll work for $15,000 per year. I know that because of all the ab-initio pilots hired by the regionals. You don't have much PIC time to discuss if you just got out of flight training.

Carl
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Old 10-05-2009 | 06:06 AM
  #59  
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From: B737CA
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Originally Posted by cgtpilot
Nice thought but the corp world is such a small piece of the pie. You typically get your 1-3 guys in each 121 major class. If your so happy with your bizjet just logon to bizjetpilotcentral.com and talk about your high starting pay and slow climbing top end pay 365/24/7 schedules (the majority of the bizjet jobs, not the Fortune 50 strech CRJ jobs). In the end, the majors want prior 121 or military officers in their left seats, period. Get over it, your CJ5++++xls X isn't what they want, sorry. But hey you've got great starting pay right!?!
Oh my...

I'll echo the rest, how sadly misinformed you are.

A wise man once said - ignorance is bliss. Boy, does it ring true...
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Old 10-05-2009 | 06:16 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Ziggy
Since Virgin is a startup, a union has not been on property long enough to negotiate a contract. Just as when SWA started they were below industry standards. But the rest of the companies have had time.
How long did it take southwest to catch up in terms of pay? How long for jetblue or airtran?

How much time should we give them? If you don't want to give them a time frame, how big can they get before they should be caught up?

Or do we just not hold these pilots accountable at all?
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