Delta: "Wind Check"
10-29-2009 | 11:31 AM
#81
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10-30-2009 | 03:46 PM
#82
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Pet Peave Alert, Pet Peave Alert!
While not dismissing the occaisional use of a wind check, excessive and habitual "wind checks" are for automatons. Seaplane and "bush" pilots safely land thousands of times a day all over the world without the aid of a "wind check", a tower, atis, a windsock, a runway etc. A good pilot is constantly attuned to their environment and is aware of their crab angle as well as the crab angle of other aircraft, tree leaves, wave patterns, blowing dust, tire smoke, etc, etc...
Many "wind checks" are used as a crutch by inattentive "airplane operators" not aviators. Wind checks are only necessary if the pilot is uncertain of a dynamic wind vector that could be a factor in the safety of the landing. There are usually numerous cues that make a wind check request unecessary. An attentive pilot should have a very good idea of the wind conditions for the runway of intended landing long before short final.
Remember that the wind readout from the tower is from a location on the field that may or may not be near the approach end of the runway you are landing on. While not advocating the banishment of the "wind check" let's listen up, pay attention and use it more sparingly please.
Sorry.....can't.....stop.....typing!!!
All better now...
winglet
While not dismissing the occaisional use of a wind check, excessive and habitual "wind checks" are for automatons. Seaplane and "bush" pilots safely land thousands of times a day all over the world without the aid of a "wind check", a tower, atis, a windsock, a runway etc. A good pilot is constantly attuned to their environment and is aware of their crab angle as well as the crab angle of other aircraft, tree leaves, wave patterns, blowing dust, tire smoke, etc, etc...
Many "wind checks" are used as a crutch by inattentive "airplane operators" not aviators. Wind checks are only necessary if the pilot is uncertain of a dynamic wind vector that could be a factor in the safety of the landing. There are usually numerous cues that make a wind check request unecessary. An attentive pilot should have a very good idea of the wind conditions for the runway of intended landing long before short final.
Remember that the wind readout from the tower is from a location on the field that may or may not be near the approach end of the runway you are landing on. While not advocating the banishment of the "wind check" let's listen up, pay attention and use it more sparingly please.
Sorry.....can't.....stop.....typing!!!
All better now...
winglet
10-30-2009 | 04:09 PM
#83
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Last edited by winglet; 10-30-2009 at 08:23 PM.
10-30-2009 | 06:20 PM
#84
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From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
.
10-30-2009 | 07:56 PM
#85
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
I think the point you "aviators" are missing is that if something were to happen, the feds are going to monday morning qb your every action.
I bug the right speed b/c it's the procedure and that way the feds can suck the fattest part of whatever they want to suck on if the poop were to hit the fan.
I fly the airplane how it needs to be flown and land how it needs to be landed otherwise.
Are you skygods able to understand that?
I bug the right speed b/c it's the procedure and that way the feds can suck the fattest part of whatever they want to suck on if the poop were to hit the fan.
I fly the airplane how it needs to be flown and land how it needs to be landed otherwise.
Are you skygods able to understand that?
10-31-2009 | 10:59 AM
#86
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This is precisely the point...for every a/c I can recall, if you land without the auto-throttles engaged you bug ref plus wind additive etc...if you don't know what the wind is you are not doing it correctly. Are you going to add 5,7, 11, 20?...in the big scheme of course 1 kt does not mean much, but if you're given a heading of 180, do you dial up 179, or 181? I'm guessing not, we all try to be exact do we not?....there is someone on here castigating others on another thread for not following manuals and SOPs, but on this subject the response was "I don't need to need to know no stinking winds, just land the jet" or something to that affect...it doesn't seem to add up to me...
10-31-2009 | 12:58 PM
#87
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veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Ok, I had to bring this thread back from the dead.
I'm on a 4-day rotation with a CA that insists I ask for a wind check on EVERY landing. Not only that, but he has a knack for asking for the winds immediately after tower just told us and cleared us to land. Additionally, when an aircraft behind us is cleared to land and is given the winds, he asks for a wind check.
E X T R E M E L Y annoying.
I'm on a 4-day rotation with a CA that insists I ask for a wind check on EVERY landing. Not only that, but he has a knack for asking for the winds immediately after tower just told us and cleared us to land. Additionally, when an aircraft behind us is cleared to land and is given the winds, he asks for a wind check.
E X T R E M E L Y annoying.
I was so going to ask today for a windcheck at the out station but I didn't get a chance, they gave it to me without asking. Preemptive strike.
10-31-2009 | 01:46 PM
#88
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This is precisely the point...for every a/c I can recall, if you land without the auto-throttles engaged you bug ref plus wind additive etc...if you don't know what the wind is you are not doing it correctly. Are you going to add 5,7, 11, 20?...in the big scheme of course 1 kt does not mean much, but if you're given a heading of 180, do you dial up 179, or 181? I'm guessing not, we all try to be exact do we not?....there is someone on here castigating others on another thread for not following manuals and SOPs, but on this subject the response was "I don't need to need to know no stinking winds, just land the jet" or something to that affect...it doesn't seem to add up to me...
I believe the complaint is not with the pilots that have a genuine need to obtain current and accurate winds due to a dynamic environment but with the pilots who have missed many opportunities to obtain the current static winds for the landing runway and still automatically and habitually request a "wind check" on short final.
Precision is admirable, lack of situational awareness is not.
I'll now move on...take care,
Winglet
10-31-2009 | 10:55 PM
#89
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From: 737/FO
This is precisely the point...for every a/c I can recall, if you land without the auto-throttles engaged you bug ref plus wind additive etc...if you don't know what the wind is you are not doing it correctly. Are you going to add 5,7, 11, 20?...in the big scheme of course 1 kt does not mean much, but if you're given a heading of 180, do you dial up 179, or 181? I'm guessing not, we all try to be exact do we not?....there is someone on here castigating others on another thread for not following manuals and SOPs, but on this subject the response was "I don't need to need to know no stinking winds, just land the jet" or something to that affect...it doesn't seem to add up to me...
I'm so glad that I don't have to fly with guys like you. 179, 181 or 180? That's South, right? I'm not against following the rules but people like you are over-the-top. I'm sure you drive exactly 55mph on the freeway, exactly 15mph through a school zone, etc. If not, you are hypocrite!
Stop asking for wind checks! It's senseless. If the wind changes much from the ATIS, there will be a SPECIAL or tower will give you an update. If you can't land the plane with variable winds, move on... to a Walmart greeter.
11-01-2009 | 01:55 PM
#90
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
Dude,
I'm so glad that I don't have to fly with guys like you. 179, 181 or 180? That's South, right? I'm not against following the rules but people like you are over-the-top. I'm sure you drive exactly 55mph on the freeway, exactly 15mph through a school zone, etc. If not, you are hypocrite!
Stop asking for wind checks! It's senseless. If the wind changes much from the ATIS, there will be a SPECIAL or tower will give you an update. If you can't land the plane with variable winds, move on... to a Walmart greeter.
I'm so glad that I don't have to fly with guys like you. 179, 181 or 180? That's South, right? I'm not against following the rules but people like you are over-the-top. I'm sure you drive exactly 55mph on the freeway, exactly 15mph through a school zone, etc. If not, you are hypocrite!
Stop asking for wind checks! It's senseless. If the wind changes much from the ATIS, there will be a SPECIAL or tower will give you an update. If you can't land the plane with variable winds, move on... to a Walmart greeter.
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