Way to go Delta (Taxiway Landing)
10-21-2009, 06:28 PM
#271
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by frozenboxhauler
I bet this thread goes on to 300! Any takers? I hope I have to pay out. This "dead horse" looks pummeled.
fbh
P.S. I'm going back to the cargo forum where everything is happy.
fbh
P.S. I'm going back to the cargo forum where everything is happy.
It's coming. I can feel it.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Joe - Your airline has had an exemplary record in an environment that has been full of risk and peril. The ASA Captains have done a great job.
This thread is no different than the others full of half truth and innuendo that some pilots love to use as a crutch to prop up their own lack of confidence and self esteem. Some regional guys use it to grind their particular brand of axe. But the commentary changes nothing.
The only good that comes from this unknowing postulation is that hopefully it makes us all more vigilant of threats both real and imagined. Maybe a better way for all of us to approach this thread is "I learned about flying from that," but few of us are willing to confess our own sins.
To set the example - I'll start:
(1) Rules about green on green pairings are there for a reason.
(2) Don't get talked into a bad idea by a Chief Pilot (it isn't his Certificate on the line)
(3) Make time. Never let yourself get rushed (if possible).
(4) The parking brake is the best safety device on the airplane.
This thread is no different than the others full of half truth and innuendo that some pilots love to use as a crutch to prop up their own lack of confidence and self esteem. Some regional guys use it to grind their particular brand of axe. But the commentary changes nothing.
The only good that comes from this unknowing postulation is that hopefully it makes us all more vigilant of threats both real and imagined. Maybe a better way for all of us to approach this thread is "I learned about flying from that," but few of us are willing to confess our own sins.
To set the example - I'll start:
(1) Rules about green on green pairings are there for a reason.
(2) Don't get talked into a bad idea by a Chief Pilot (it isn't his Certificate on the line)
(3) Make time. Never let yourself get rushed (if possible).
(4) The parking brake is the best safety device on the airplane.
Sadly, I think most guys on every side of this worthwhile debate feel likes throwing something not only at the other side but their own side.
10-21-2009, 06:29 PM
#272
Senior by choice
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 425
Just a thought....
Has anyone given any thought as to whether the medical emergency could have been in the cockpit!!?
Paints a little different picture, huh!!
Has anyone given any thought as to whether the medical emergency could have been in the cockpit!!?
Paints a little different picture, huh!!
10-21-2009, 06:33 PM
#273
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
I'm confused with the direction things have taken. Currently it looks like there are three trains of thought.
1) The Delta guys landed on a taxiway instead of a runway and it's wrong.
2) The Delta guys landed on a taxiway instead of a runway and it was a good landing.
3) It doesn't matter what they did at least they aren't regional pilots and they don't deserve to be talked about.
As far as what the NTSB has released goes they were cleared to land on one runway and instead landed on a taxiway. Unless the aircraft wasn't capable of flying I'd say it's a no-brainier that the crew screwed up. You can either learn from it or not.
As far as people saying they don't see a double standard then open your eyes and take a look. Was I the only one that saw Skiles speak to the gov't?
Use that little magic search function up top of the page and look at what was said shortly after the Colgan crash before facts were released. It's an obvious double standard when I can tell exactly who does and doesn't work for DAL by looking at the opinions.
1) The Delta guys landed on a taxiway instead of a runway and it's wrong.
2) The Delta guys landed on a taxiway instead of a runway and it was a good landing.
3) It doesn't matter what they did at least they aren't regional pilots and they don't deserve to be talked about.
As far as what the NTSB has released goes they were cleared to land on one runway and instead landed on a taxiway. Unless the aircraft wasn't capable of flying I'd say it's a no-brainier that the crew screwed up. You can either learn from it or not.
As far as people saying they don't see a double standard then open your eyes and take a look. Was I the only one that saw Skiles speak to the gov't?
Use that little magic search function up top of the page and look at what was said shortly after the Colgan crash before facts were released. It's an obvious double standard when I can tell exactly who does and doesn't work for DAL by looking at the opinions.
10-21-2009, 06:34 PM
#274
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by formerdal
Just a thought....
Has anyone given any thought as to whether the medical emergency could have been in the cockpit!!?
Paints a little different picture, huh!!
Has anyone given any thought as to whether the medical emergency could have been in the cockpit!!?
Paints a little different picture, huh!!
10-21-2009, 06:34 PM
#275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 181
Originally Posted by cyrcadian
That's what happens when you forget to ask for a "wind check."
Let that be a lesson for all . . .
Let that be a lesson for all . . .
That's what happens when landing at night and neglect to look left and right to make sure you are between the white lights, not the blue!
10-21-2009, 06:38 PM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Here are some quotes from mainline pilots regarding regional pilots in the thread right below this one....
The series of unfortunate accidents over the past few years by their respective regional partners has exposed the mainline companies to what some are quietly stipulating as too much financial culpability for the amount of services they are contracted to perform. With no disrespect to the victims of Colgan intended, Delta, Continental, and the rest of the members of Sky Team have taken a huge hit it in the shorts concerning their financial liability and responsibility (paying of both explicit and nonexplicit damages) over this accident.
Some of the regional guys wonder why I sit in the JS when there are seats in the back?
I have experienced the situation in the second quote first hand at ASA...Since the Colgan crash, I have had several Delta pilots want to sit up front even though there are seats in the back.
There are two assumptions from mainline pilots that are getting old:
1. We are all inexperienced kids who don't know what we are doing.
and
2. We all must want to work for Delta.
The series of unfortunate accidents over the past few years by their respective regional partners has exposed the mainline companies to what some are quietly stipulating as too much financial culpability for the amount of services they are contracted to perform. With no disrespect to the victims of Colgan intended, Delta, Continental, and the rest of the members of Sky Team have taken a huge hit it in the shorts concerning their financial liability and responsibility (paying of both explicit and nonexplicit damages) over this accident.
Some of the regional guys wonder why I sit in the JS when there are seats in the back?
I have experienced the situation in the second quote first hand at ASA...Since the Colgan crash, I have had several Delta pilots want to sit up front even though there are seats in the back.
There are two assumptions from mainline pilots that are getting old:
1. We are all inexperienced kids who don't know what we are doing.
and
2. We all must want to work for Delta.
10-21-2009, 06:38 PM
#277
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
I'm confused with the direction things have taken. Currently it looks like there are three trains of thought.
1) The Delta guys landed ...
2) The Delta guys landed ...
Use that little magic search function up top of the page and look at what was said shortly after the Colgan crash ...
It's an obvious double standard ...
1) The Delta guys landed ...
2) The Delta guys landed ...
Use that little magic search function up top of the page and look at what was said shortly after the Colgan crash ...
It's an obvious double standard ...
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 10-21-2009 at 06:54 PM.
10-21-2009, 06:40 PM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by TPROP4ever
Wow....I have sat back and tried to stay silent but this statement I have to respond too. Any pilot is capable of making a deadly mistake at any time of any day, and to ignore that fact makes a pilot a danger in the cockpit. You sound like you believe landing on a taxiway is ok because it didnt result in a loss of life. I submit that had a plane been on that taxiway, mabye another 76, we would be discussing the second worst aviation disaster since Tenerif.......do not forget that, it was shear dumb luck, not the fact that DAL is a major that kept this from ending badly. I want to know exactly what happened so no one ever makes this mistake again.....We are all human after all, lets learn from this
I would never have posted a thread entitled "Way to Go Regional...Taking off on the wrong runway and killing people." Instead, this thread got lots of traction because it was a mainline, and more importantly, the world's largest mainline Delta. Its become a vehicle for regional guys to vent on mainline guys, and mainline guys trying to defend their position.
For those of you regional guys who want to challenge the experiences of regional versus mainline let me offer this. Here's my resume and its not uncommon:
I've been flying professionally for 26 years. 20 of those years were flying heavies for the USAF. During those years, I took off and landed in 69 different countries. I also flew in combat ops in Grenada, Somalia, Rwanda, Haiti, Bosnia and the Persian Gulf. I have seen the extremes of aviation from adverse weather conditions, landing at fields without published approaches, to being shot at, to 17 hour legs with air refueling, to landing on an ice runway in Antarctica. With all of that, I'm a junior FO at Delta. I'm not immune to mistakes. I try and learn something every time I fly.
That being said, don't try and tell me that your 1000 hours at a regional somehow makes you more qualified than I. It doesn't. Some of you have bon a fide complaints. Some of you are guilty of just being jealous. Get over it, move on, and lets all of us make this a better profession. The trivial BS is getting old.
Buzz
10-21-2009, 06:42 PM
#279
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
I have have experienced the second quote first hand at ASA...Since the Colgan crash, I have had several Delta pilots want to sit up front even though there are seats in the back.
IMHO the ER Jumpseat is the most comfy, best eatin', seat in the fleet. I'm not there to Judge their performance, I'm there to eat their food!
10-21-2009, 06:47 PM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Have you sat in the back of an RJ, or the middle seat of anything recently? In comparison that jumpseat is the Taj Mahal and who knows, in front a guy might score a drink, a snack, or even a crew meal!
IMHO the ER Jumpseat is the most comfy, best eatin', seat in the fleet. I'm not there to Judge their performance, I'm there to eat their food!
IMHO the ER Jumpseat is the most comfy, best eatin', seat in the fleet. I'm not there to Judge their performance, I'm there to eat their food!
The quote above came from one of your colleagues admitting he does it...
Sorry if I am ****ing you guys off, but frankly I'm tired of mainline pilots questioning my skills while landing on taxiways....The double standard is getting old...
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