If the FAA investigation states that they were NOT sleeping then I would expect every one that accused them of sleeping to admit they were wrong on this forum.
I am not naive enough to believe that all of you would admit your mistake in public or in private. Maybe then we can all point out how wrong those people are and how unqualified they are to post in an aviation forum and how they should not be allowed to post in the future because they made such a blatant error. |
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
(Post 700302)
If the FAA investigation states that they were NOT sleeping then I would expect every one that accused them of sleeping to admit they were wrong on this forum.
I am not naive enough to believe that all of you would admit your mistake in public or in private. Maybe then we can all point out how wrong those people are and how unqualified they are to post in an aviation forum and how they should not be allowed to post in the future because they made such a blatant error. USMCFLYR |
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
(Post 700215)
They miss-programmed their FMS, inadvertently entering a point after MSP or adding the alternate after MSP as part of the route. They missed a freq change with Denver center and quit paying attention to where they were while in Nav mode. The airplane kept flying the white line and they were flying waypoint to waypoint rather actually navigating. They had no idea that white dot they were overflying was their destination, just thought is was another point along the route.
That, my friend, is ONE plausible alternative explanation. Don't worry, there are plenty of other threads for you to post in. If that's indeed what happened then these guys not only need to be fired, they should probably go back to the very beginning and go their private pilot training all over again. If you're completely without situational awareness for two hours with no idea where you are and completely out of communication then you have no business carrying passengers. |
Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
(Post 700169)
If you can give me EVEN ONE plausible alternative explanation for what happened then I'll shut up and you won't hear from me again for the rest of the thread...
Just ONE. What you should do in this country is allow due process to take place. I am not defending anything other than letting these guys be investigated without experts like you frying them before you know anything. |
Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
(Post 700309)
Yeah, not good enough mate.
If that's indeed what happened then these guys not only need to be fired, they should probably go back to the very beginning and go their private pilot training all over again. If you're completely without situational awareness for two hours with no idea where you are and completely out of communication then you have no business carrying passengers. |
Aussie, you have as much SA as they did. You did not say to give an explanation that would vindicate them, you said to give a plausible explanation as an alternative to them sleeping - that I did.
FWIW - I see you are an EMB-145 F/O - so how many EMB-145 F/O's continuously monitor where they are - I would like a Capt to cover the FMS and ask an F/O where the nearest divert is (simulate loss of all navigation/comm and electrical fire) and see how many get it right. I am pretty sure there are many out there that do not maintain the positional SA that they should. |
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
(Post 700320)
FWIW - I see you are an EMB-145 F/O - so how many EMB-145 F/O's continuously monitor where they are - I would like a Capt to cover the FMS and ask an F/O where the nearest divert is (simulate loss of all navigation/comm and electrical fire) and see how many get it right. I am pretty sure there are many out there that do not maintain the positional SA that they should.
What a crock! In the 3 airlines I've been associated with, each has had its procedures for the crew (both PF and PM [used to be PNF]) to use to maintain situational awareness. Did each crewmember follow that every time? Probably not, but hopefully at least the PF knew where the freak he was. Of course, depending on length of flight,the PM usually would keep the flight log, which should make him or her privy to their whereabouts, at least within 20 miles or so. Now, whether either of them knew where the closest divert base was at any point in time could be questioned, but then again, that's what the FMS is for. For the steam gauge guys, well they usually needed a chart. I know I did.:confused: JJ |
Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
(Post 700315)
What you should do in this country is allow due process to take place.
|
I never though the lied to the authorities when they said they lost their way whilst in their heated discussion was a cover up.
As a matter of practice we tune Navs on the NG in order to maintain a sense of situation awareness as it relates to our location. The only alert for top of descent on the NG is blinking FMC amber light on both foward instrument panels along with a Reset Mode Control Panel Altitude in the FMC CDU. Be that as it may, it seems that all this automation, unfortunately, has made some way too complacent. |
Originally Posted by LivingInMEM
(Post 700320)
FWIW - I see you are an EMB-145 F/O - so how many EMB-145 F/O's continuously monitor where they are - I would like a Capt to cover the FMS and ask an F/O where the nearest divert is (simulate loss of all navigation/comm and electrical fire) and see how many get it right. I am pretty sure there are many out there that do not maintain the positional SA that they should.
Why would it matter that he's a 145 FO? There goes that major vs regional dumb debate again. Those statements are about as accurate as me saying "so how many 767 CAs could land on a runway" or "How many NWA guys can find an airport". How many thousands of hours pushing the autopilot button and reading back a radio call must one do before he's considered skilled at his job? Obviously it isn't that hard or we would have people sleeping behind the wheel ;) |
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