The steam gauge guys would get it right, because they navigate via chart and dial-in their own VOR freqs and radials. For the FMS guys, that's my point - let's not pretend the pilots stay as engaged as they should. Knowing where you are with respect to the FMS (i.e. 2 more legs/waypoints to go, 345.4 miles to go, etc) is not the same as staying positionally aware with the charts (i.e. where over the ground are we?). One relies on the programming of the FMS, one is absolute. There are definitely those days where "navigating" an FMS aircraft means nothing more than making sure that the airplane symbol is on the white line.

I am not saying that's what happened, but it isn't beyond reason to say it could.

Was this actually said by the F/O:eek:??? Please say it isn't so:eek:!!!

Why would you bet that there are days where he is behind the jet? What does that have to do with knowing situational awareness? What does that have to do with knowing how to use a radio, do lost com procedures, or be so lost that an FA has to chime in and ask you why you haven't descended yet? So why a regional FO when you have most people using an FMS? Nice high horse you're on there.

Give me a break.

Hmm. How about a stuck mike + a "heated/impassioned" conversation. Time can fly when you're having fun, and a stuck mike can be easy to miss when you're flying along in a quiet sector.

Doesn't explain the navigation error, that's for sure. But the NORDO stuff happens all the time, and isn't always obvious when it happens.

One things for sure . . . any pilot who's ever been the subject of a newspaper article knows that the facts reported are criminally misleading. Pilots are not allowed to bring their case or their defense to the media. So this whole thread is about judging without 90% of the actual facts.




I wonder what the dispatcher was doing in all this? "Operational control" is a shared responsibility, after all.

Does anyone know if the moon was in the seventh hour and Jupiter was aligned with Mars? I mean it sure seems that some are looking for validation here.

First of all, have you seen an F/O that wasn't at one point or another? How about a pilot on a late night or early morning or end of a long block of days or on the edge of getting the flu or any other number of factors - everyone has bad days. Being behind the jet equals lack of SA equals lack of positional SA (still on the white line) equals temporal distortion (has it been an hour since we talked to someone?) and on and on..... by the way, I fly freight at night to the northern tier - there are plenty of days where going close to an hour with no comms is the norm. It is not unheard of.

The OFDM, and DFDR will shead light on this theory. Being current and qualified guys, they would have accomplished the lost comms. procedures... wouldn't one think?


Very good question. Did ATC contact NWA FLT OPS? Did NWA FLT OPS make an attempt to contact the flight via ACARS, SELCAL, or any other means available to them?

Nope, just think it's funny that some are already heatedly debating what happened with no facts. For the record, show me where I said what happened - I just threw out a plausible possibility to see if Aussie was a man of his word.

haha I want to hear about "pitbull's" theory of sexual misconduct in the flight deck! He even suggested testing for semen!

Now that's what I'm talking about! :D:p

I agree, it's a stupid, dumb debate.

That said, I think your 300 hour wonders have the benefit/curse of flying equipment that's one/two generations more advanced than what they'll see at the legacies.

Going from a nice shiny new ERJ with. . . . . .

• FADEC,
• EFIS,
• EGPWS graphic displays,
• superimposed RADAR and TCAS, VNAV profiles,
• "bannana's" for decent planning,
• FMS's
• HUD's (I think Horizon has these)
• Auto-tuning radios
• Auto de/anti-ice warnings and self-activating capabilities

. . . . . Into a 20 year old DC-9 with manual everything is a bit more challenging than they probably realize.

It IS different, and arguably somewhat more difficult. While I have no doubt that your average 300 hour ERJ FO would have little problem learning how to competently fly an older plane like a DC-9, I (and others) are not impressed with the attitude that comes across in a lot of the posts that imply they've "seen it all, done it all".