US Airways to Cut 1000 Jobs, Reduce Flying
10-30-2009, 12:13 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,485
If I can find a link to post I will, but from what Parker put out it seens that we lost over 250 million flying international over the past year. The cuts were the result of the E 190 drawdown (110 pilots) and the rest is overlap in reserve coverage for the closing of the 3 bases.
LAS made money for AWA when we were at 8 cents a seat mile (CASM), now that we are 14 cents we lose money. That's the company line, anyway. I still fly full jets out of LAS. If you lose money flying full jets then you are not charging enough money!
We just won a grievence out West about minumum block hours. We are at minimum fleet size in the West. The 35 furloughs should not be happening to the West pilots but with an ineffective (non) Union like USAPA that will not change. We are losing pilots that were employed at AWA and flying while guys that were on furlough at AAA are still employed. The part that really sucks is that I had a friend forced to resign to take a job in the Mideast because the VP of Ops would not give him a LOA. The Flight Ops management (all Eastholes) is trying to dump the West pilot group whenever they can.
LAS made money for AWA when we were at 8 cents a seat mile (CASM), now that we are 14 cents we lose money. That's the company line, anyway. I still fly full jets out of LAS. If you lose money flying full jets then you are not charging enough money!
We just won a grievence out West about minumum block hours. We are at minimum fleet size in the West. The 35 furloughs should not be happening to the West pilots but with an ineffective (non) Union like USAPA that will not change. We are losing pilots that were employed at AWA and flying while guys that were on furlough at AAA are still employed. The part that really sucks is that I had a friend forced to resign to take a job in the Mideast because the VP of Ops would not give him a LOA. The Flight Ops management (all Eastholes) is trying to dump the West pilot group whenever they can.
10-30-2009, 03:29 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: E170/175 CA
Posts: 334
The 200 furloughs should not come as a surprise, sadly. US Airways sold ten E-190's, and plans to get rid of the remaining 15 as soon as possible. That should translate to about 250 pilot jobs lost right there. Perhaps they need those extra 50 on line to cover training events on other types, or perhaps they just want to beef up reserves given there will be more commuters after BOS and LGA close as domiciles. Either way, that 200 number is in line with planned fleet size reduction that had already been made public knowledge. No one likes to hear about more furloughs, but everyone should have known this was coming.
Most everyone here is up to speed, but since a few people seem to be missing the point and making confused posts regarding RAH: RAH did buy ten E190's from US Airways. That did contribute to the furlough of US Airways pilots. Those ten E190's will not be flown for US Airways. They will be flying in Midwest paint colors, operate out of MKE and DEN, and will serve the MIdwest and Frontier route structure.
Most everyone here is up to speed, but since a few people seem to be missing the point and making confused posts regarding RAH: RAH did buy ten E190's from US Airways. That did contribute to the furlough of US Airways pilots. Those ten E190's will not be flown for US Airways. They will be flying in Midwest paint colors, operate out of MKE and DEN, and will serve the MIdwest and Frontier route structure.
10-30-2009, 12:59 PM
#43
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by flyguy19348
Well all this US Airways change is part of the "set up" splitting the east and west and selling the west to RAH and east to AMR. So the International routes are not a big deal. It will mostly end up going out of JFK on the silver Boeing birds.
I can't see AMR buying more planes. They had over 900 airplanes from the TWA aquisition, and are now planning on going down to 600ish. And I'm pretty sure RAH won't have the $$$ to buy a piece of UsAir. Just because they aquired YX and F9 doesn't mean they can go on a shopping spree. Things are much cheaper in BK.
Last edited by johnso29; 10-30-2009 at 01:53 PM.
10-30-2009, 01:11 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 136
Sad for the Easties... sorry guys.
I'll state the obvious... something strange is affoot at the circle-K.
A. USAir is just cutting off peices trying to save the whole.
B. Rightsizing for a buy-out of some sort.
Either way, it is not pretty for our friends. Especially those who have spent 20 years in BOS/LGA and now having to commute.
I'll state the obvious... something strange is affoot at the circle-K.
A. USAir is just cutting off peices trying to save the whole.
B. Rightsizing for a buy-out of some sort.
Either way, it is not pretty for our friends. Especially those who have spent 20 years in BOS/LGA and now having to commute.
10-30-2009, 02:40 PM
#46
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,485
From the West pilot group:
This morning Doug Parker announced a restructuring plan which aims to refocus the airline around its “core market.” Apparently if you're a mainline pilot, the core market doesn't include Las Vegas, LaGuardia or Boston as those three pilot domiciles are being cut. First off, we are quite dismayed that any mainline pilots are losing their jobs as nowhere in the restructuring announcement did we see anything related to the regionals being cut. This scenario has become all too familiar: mainline losses occurring as regionals either gain flying or are spared being cut. We don't wish to delve into the legitimacy of outsourced flying other than to point out that there is a finite amount of passengers needing to be flown at any particular airline. To divide flying among a mainline and any other group creates, at a minimum, a competition between pilot groups to fly those passengers. What is painfully obvious after fifteen years of sharing our flying with “Regional Jets” is that mainline pilots wind up with a Hobson's Choice: either engage in a “Name That Tune” type of bidding for outsourced flying to keep block hours, or protect mainline wages and benefits at the expense of pay and quality of life at the mainline. Theoretically nothing stops us under the RLA to bargain for both more flying (and why not all of the flying?) in addition to pay and scheduling improvements for mainline. But to be successful, such an effort would require that a union utilize all of its powers under Section 6 against the company, up to and including the right to withhold labor services. That in turn requires real union leadership.
Second, we at Leonidas are incredulous that the West would be taking any more furloughs given: (a) the block hour arbitration (TA10) result; and (b) the 147 furloughs we've already suffered. A lot is not adding up here. To make matters worse, we have no way of ascertaining what negotiations transpired between the company and USAPA, what the facts are (and by facts we don't mean what the company or USAPA profess as the actions by both parties since the merger, especially USAPA's leadership, strongly support our guarded suspicion), and how the company can justify a further reduction in the West. Sure LAS is being cut and we don't doubt that the company (and USAPA?) would prefer to limit the analysis to the geographic location of the base cut, but we all know there is a much more to pilot staffing – namely block hours. Not once has the company or USAPA allowed a third party audit of where the block hours are being cut, or the history of East versus West flying. What is not lost on any West pilot is that there are an awful lot of black tops parked at gates in Phoenix and Vegas – proportionally a lot more than there are West airplanes parked at PHL and CLT gates. All of this is on top of a DFR lawsuit that resulted in a jury unanimously finding that USAPA breached its duty to fairly represent the West in addition to the chain of highly suspicious actions by the company, albeit insufficient in the collective to prosecute a Hybrid DFR action in court.
Is it fair to say that the West pilot group is bit raw after more than four years of this? You bet. But that is why enough of you have supported this legal effort and it is because of this support that Leonidas can today speak to you frankly about our options as a pilot group. At a minimum, these additional furloughs add to the damages trial which will take place in the Spring. As with all of our furloughs on the West, none of these pilots would be on the street had there been a joint contract, and the harm being suffered by these pilots (and downgraded captains for that matter) arguably would not be occurring had there been a joint contract with the Nicolau Arbitration in place. In effect, the harm suffered is exactly the harm envisioned by the defendants, except now we're talking about 170 pilots instead of 147. We know many are wondering whether a second DFR is developing, and your question has already been posed to our attorneys. Suffice it to say that Leonidas and our attorneys are examining the situation closely. At this time we have no comment either way regarding a second DFR, but like you we and our attorneys are puzzled as to how the West can once again be taking any cuts in light of the 147 pilots already furloughed and the result of TA10.
Finally, we would ask all pilots to download and read two documents filed this week by Pulsinelli Sugart. This is our “Appellee's Brief” to USAPA's appeal to the Ninth Circuit. Essentially this is what would be called an “answer” at the trial level; we're responding to USAPA's claims that they were somehow prejudiced at the trial level. This was filed before the Ninth Circuit. Now for the second document, shift gears back to the trial court. This is our “reply” brief regarding our application for attorney's fees. The matter is before Judge Wake and it is his decision alone as to whether we receive attorney's fees. We strongly encourage pilots to read both of these documents as they are excellent reminders that despite all of the malfeasance by others during this merger, we have at least secured just results in both legal venues. In other words, the right people are paying attention and if it weren't for these professionals, then our careers would have surely been vaporized. We know that this doesn't make what's happening any more palatable, but we also are confident that the West pilots will grit their teeth and get through all of this just as they have for the past four and a half years.
Sincerely,
Leonidas, LLC
This morning Doug Parker announced a restructuring plan which aims to refocus the airline around its “core market.” Apparently if you're a mainline pilot, the core market doesn't include Las Vegas, LaGuardia or Boston as those three pilot domiciles are being cut. First off, we are quite dismayed that any mainline pilots are losing their jobs as nowhere in the restructuring announcement did we see anything related to the regionals being cut. This scenario has become all too familiar: mainline losses occurring as regionals either gain flying or are spared being cut. We don't wish to delve into the legitimacy of outsourced flying other than to point out that there is a finite amount of passengers needing to be flown at any particular airline. To divide flying among a mainline and any other group creates, at a minimum, a competition between pilot groups to fly those passengers. What is painfully obvious after fifteen years of sharing our flying with “Regional Jets” is that mainline pilots wind up with a Hobson's Choice: either engage in a “Name That Tune” type of bidding for outsourced flying to keep block hours, or protect mainline wages and benefits at the expense of pay and quality of life at the mainline. Theoretically nothing stops us under the RLA to bargain for both more flying (and why not all of the flying?) in addition to pay and scheduling improvements for mainline. But to be successful, such an effort would require that a union utilize all of its powers under Section 6 against the company, up to and including the right to withhold labor services. That in turn requires real union leadership.
Second, we at Leonidas are incredulous that the West would be taking any more furloughs given: (a) the block hour arbitration (TA10) result; and (b) the 147 furloughs we've already suffered. A lot is not adding up here. To make matters worse, we have no way of ascertaining what negotiations transpired between the company and USAPA, what the facts are (and by facts we don't mean what the company or USAPA profess as the actions by both parties since the merger, especially USAPA's leadership, strongly support our guarded suspicion), and how the company can justify a further reduction in the West. Sure LAS is being cut and we don't doubt that the company (and USAPA?) would prefer to limit the analysis to the geographic location of the base cut, but we all know there is a much more to pilot staffing – namely block hours. Not once has the company or USAPA allowed a third party audit of where the block hours are being cut, or the history of East versus West flying. What is not lost on any West pilot is that there are an awful lot of black tops parked at gates in Phoenix and Vegas – proportionally a lot more than there are West airplanes parked at PHL and CLT gates. All of this is on top of a DFR lawsuit that resulted in a jury unanimously finding that USAPA breached its duty to fairly represent the West in addition to the chain of highly suspicious actions by the company, albeit insufficient in the collective to prosecute a Hybrid DFR action in court.
Is it fair to say that the West pilot group is bit raw after more than four years of this? You bet. But that is why enough of you have supported this legal effort and it is because of this support that Leonidas can today speak to you frankly about our options as a pilot group. At a minimum, these additional furloughs add to the damages trial which will take place in the Spring. As with all of our furloughs on the West, none of these pilots would be on the street had there been a joint contract, and the harm being suffered by these pilots (and downgraded captains for that matter) arguably would not be occurring had there been a joint contract with the Nicolau Arbitration in place. In effect, the harm suffered is exactly the harm envisioned by the defendants, except now we're talking about 170 pilots instead of 147. We know many are wondering whether a second DFR is developing, and your question has already been posed to our attorneys. Suffice it to say that Leonidas and our attorneys are examining the situation closely. At this time we have no comment either way regarding a second DFR, but like you we and our attorneys are puzzled as to how the West can once again be taking any cuts in light of the 147 pilots already furloughed and the result of TA10.
Finally, we would ask all pilots to download and read two documents filed this week by Pulsinelli Sugart. This is our “Appellee's Brief” to USAPA's appeal to the Ninth Circuit. Essentially this is what would be called an “answer” at the trial level; we're responding to USAPA's claims that they were somehow prejudiced at the trial level. This was filed before the Ninth Circuit. Now for the second document, shift gears back to the trial court. This is our “reply” brief regarding our application for attorney's fees. The matter is before Judge Wake and it is his decision alone as to whether we receive attorney's fees. We strongly encourage pilots to read both of these documents as they are excellent reminders that despite all of the malfeasance by others during this merger, we have at least secured just results in both legal venues. In other words, the right people are paying attention and if it weren't for these professionals, then our careers would have surely been vaporized. We know that this doesn't make what's happening any more palatable, but we also are confident that the West pilots will grit their teeth and get through all of this just as they have for the past four and a half years.
Sincerely,
Leonidas, LLC
10-30-2009, 06:10 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by LuvJockey
Actually, if the RAH pilots continue to fly E190's for grossly low wages, they are a cancer as well. Okay, maybe they are making the best out of a crappy industry. Does that make them colon cancer?
Aw geez, it was just a joke.
Aw geez, it was just a joke.
10-30-2009, 09:27 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: B737 F/O
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by cactusmike
First off, we are quite dismayed that any mainline pilots are losing their jobs as nowhere in the restructuring announcement did we see anything related to the regionals being cut.
10-30-2009, 10:30 PM
#50
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by buddies8
you do know that US Air E190 pay for 16yr Capt is 95 p/hr. Thats average E145 pay at 18 years at regional, so your point is?
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