APA Inhouse fighting

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01-13-2010 | 05:18 PM

#31

iaflyer

seeing the country...

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 4,022

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From: 73N A

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

It should. I agree with you. I prefer to get things done quickly and not drag out talks. If you look at a 3+ year gap, that even at 4% is a ton of money that you are walking away from. The company sees this and has it figured it to their numbers. The law of compounding is very important.

I want 350 an hr for 777A's but I am also a realist. There are ways to write rides in to a contract, but people generally prefer to go for a sure thing. Our 1113C agreement had these in the negative and man I am just plain glad they are gone.

I don't know how American's pensions work. I hope that because Delta's is contributions to the pilots over the career, we can get away from the focus on "last 5 years earnings" that a defined benefit plan had. I think because of that, the 777 Captain pay was so high, because (a) we'd all reach it eventually and (b) it had such an effect on the pension.

Maybe at AA it's still that way - I honestly don't know.

At DAL, I wish they would "spread the wealth" and boost all the pay rates equally. It would benefit everyone's retirement.

01-13-2010 | 05:23 PM

#32

FlyingViking

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Sep 2007

Posts: 931

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From: B-7ER JFK

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer

At DAL, I wish they would "spread the wealth" and boost all the pay rates equally. It would benefit everyone's retirement.

No kidding... You and me both mister...

01-14-2010 | 05:03 AM

#33

EXTW

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From: Up Front

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Keep up the same strategy, and DAL will pass AMR in ALL categories in 2011.

Really? Can you compare the retirement plans at both carriers and make that same statement?

EXTW

01-14-2010 | 06:22 AM

#34

Pineapple Guy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EXTW

Really? Can you compare the retirement plans at both carriers and make that same statement?

EXTW

No, I can't. Years ago APA was smart enough to develop a split A/B plan retirement, whereas DAL and USAir all went with a straight A plan. Big mistake, and kudo's to APA back then.

What my statement talked about was current pay rates. And I'd caution against being too smug with a retirement benefit that is a promise to pay. Stuff happens, and those promises can evaporate pretty quickly; including the one I now have from the PBGC.

01-14-2010 | 07:02 AM

#35

EXTW

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Joined: Mar 2005

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From: Up Front

No smugness at all intended in my statement. You stated that DAL would be ahead in ALL categories. That is not correct at this point.
If you notice my screenname, it means I am also a PBGC dependent.

EXTW

01-14-2010 | 07:06 AM

#36

aafurloughee

Thread Starter

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Joined: Feb 2008

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider850

Even though he is furloughed,he can call is union rep. If you need the number
pm me. I already pm'ed you and told you what was going on. You can also get on the APA website. It doesn't belong here.

Thanks for the info, interesting times we live in.

01-14-2010 | 07:12 AM

#37

acl65pilot

Happy to be here

Joined: Jun 2006

Posts: 18,563

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From: A-320A

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXTW

Depends on where you sit in the spectrum. I got over 20K put in my DC last year.

01-14-2010 | 10:11 AM

#38

ClipperJet

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Joined: Apr 2007

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingViking

That kind of thinking will never win anything, just somehow survive without any pride or feeling of accomplishment. What is so wrong with demanding $300/hr, and fight until you get it, from a team that makes $10K/hr while you are fighting it? Go for the $300/hr APA, you have my vote..

But what if the industry/economy won't support $300/hr?

Why not $500? $750? $1000? Where is the line? What is "too much?" We all know the line exists...somewhere. The trick is finding that line. What we "want" or what we think we "deserve" is largely irrelevant. Any pay rate has to be supported by what the market will support. Markets change. All the time. What was true in the past is probably not going to be true in the future--either for better or for worse.

We all have to be realistic. Does that mean "set your sights lower?" Depends on where they are set to start with. Maybe a big raise IS realistic. Maybe even maintaining the status quo is unrealistic.

Either way, I think the arguments need to outline why any particular rate is sustainable and supportable in the current market and in a realistic estimate of the future market. Thus far, I've seen no one make those arguments.

(BTW: “Management got big bonuses so we should get a raise” is not an analysis of what the market can/will sustain—even if we think it’s scummy, unfair, and it makes us really, really, really mad.)

01-14-2010 | 03:27 PM

#39

SoCalGuy

Keep Calm Chive ON

Joined: Feb 2008

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From: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787

Hopefully this is 'starting' to move in the right/positive direction with APA's negotiations with the company.

Best of luck to the APA guys/gals.....

INTERVIEW-AMR pilots union says labor talks at impasse

01-14-2010 | 05:44 PM

#40

Check Essential

Works Every Weekend

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 3,506

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From: 737 ATL

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGuy

Hopefully this is 'starting' to move in the right/positive direction with APA's negotiations with the company.
Best of luck to the APA guys/gals.....
INTERVIEW-AMR pilots union says labor talks at impasse

We shall see if the new "Democratic" NMB will declare an impasse.

If they refuse to release the APA, then we'll know that the Moak strategy is correct. We are completely at the mercy of management and it is they who will set our wages. Doesn't really matter what we think we deserve. We cooperate with every move management makes, we go to their birthday parties and hope they are benevolent and will throw us a few crumbs.