LuvJockey

If you are working more than an average of 3 days/week (unless you're on reserve!) then you are picking up extra trips. That would mean 2 nights/week away (unless you're commuting!) or 100 nights away per year (minus vacations and any sick time used, so in reality probably less than 90 per year.)

It's all about the greed thing...how much do you want to make? If you are a Quality of Life type of guy, you can spend less than 90 nights per year on the road, and less as you get more senior and can hold turns (1 day) and two day trips. Honestly, the greed thing tends to take over and most end up working extra days. Good luck whatever your decision!

Floyd94

So all the 2-3yr FO's chiming in on the W2 thread, saying they were making $150k+ are working how many days? And how much can someone expect to make based on the above schedule?

I ask because I see these numbers and think about jumping a cush corp job just to make a little extra coin for a slightly harder lifestyle. I'd hate to be mislead.

OrionTanker

If you are single without and strings attached, there some f/o's that make close to $200k. They are few and rare, but young and stupid makes for a rich guy later with a nice retirement. They also do not have much in the way of social life.

The quality of life is all about if you commute or live in base. You live in base and start trading into 1 and 2 day trips life is good.

You commute you might want to work a 4 day trip 3 times a month. More work performed, with more time off (long string of days off). Still the same amount of work.

LuvJockey

If anyone wants an actual daily rate, just go to the pay section and take whatever year scale you want and multiply it times about 6.5 hours/day. At the moment, schedules are a little thin so if you want you can use 6 hours/day to be conservative. I doubt that they're going to stay that way, they'll probably be more towards 6.5-7.0 per day.

$150k is attainable at a lot of different points in the pay scale, you do the math. All depends on your QOL.

u2drvr

We get paid in Trips For Pay (TFP). Right now, the lines are averaging around 93 TFP for 13 days at work. I typically work 15 days a month and shoot for 105 TFP. As a second year FO, this works out to about $101,500 (105 x 80.57 x 12) in straight pay. Per diem adds about 6k and 401k (9.3%) match adds about 10k if you want to count those items.

The beauty of it is the flexibility. It is relatively easy to trade trips around to get the days off that you need. I'm ~90 from the bottom in OAK (our junior base) and can hold a PM hard line (no reserve). I work most weekends, but can get about one weekend a month off if I need to for whatever reason.

Hiring usually happens in waves. They hire until the situation changes and they realize they are overmanned. I got here in the middle of the last wave. I know guys who got here at the end of the wave and have been commuting across the country to sit reserve for the last year and a half. Get your sh!t together and be ready to get on in the beginning of the next wave.

While I have no regrets for the 21 years I did on active duty, I would have been much better off if I got out and came here as early as I could.

Good Luck

Aloha

As a former Marine Aviator, I don't remember many "cush jobs" in the Corps. If you have one, good on you bubba, and stay put (at least until your next set of orders show up – or until the next hiring wave).

I will say, that if you get in at SWA at the beginning of a hiring wave, life becomes easy very quickly. By year two, you are easily matching O-4 pay and have 15 days off a month with the family (as long as you live near your crew base). With your reserve commitments, add an extra week of work to the Marine Reserves. (One weekend a month plus 5-7 green days where you are available to fly for Uncle Sam). The reserve gig is a pain, but SWA is generous with their policy, and the secondary retirement and medical benefits that the government offer are just too good and STABLE to let go after 10-19 years of active. (Plus the extra $30-50 K a year helps make up for your overseas deployments and time away from the family and country).

The big thing you will miss after the Corps is the camaraderie - in the civilian world it hardly exists - even at a great place like SWA. This only makes sense - after the Marines, where espirit de corps is prized above all, few other places would ever measure up. Don't get me wrong - SWA is an awesome company and I love going to work (which was not always the case in the Corps; especially on your unaccompanied tours). The rule of thumb that I see, is that people act and vote completely, by how that vote or action will affect them immediately; not how it will affect the team in the long run. This seems to be an industry-wide standard, talking with guys at my unit that are in CAL, UPS, FedEx, SWA, and AMR.

Bottom line, life is good in the airlines (as long as your company stays strong and relations with management stays healthy). It's worth giving a new way of life a shot - better money than the Corps and lots of free time. BUT BE WARNED - AIRLINE LIFE IS A FICKLE MISTRESS. Life was good at most other airlines as well; and that has changed for them. Most airlines hire new pilots right up to the time they furlough, it seems. Many Marines took the chance to get out, passed on the Reserves gig, and then were furloughed a year or two later. I would strongly recommend finding a job in the Military Reserves to offset the inherent instability of this civilian flying business. Best of luck with your future choices.
Semper fi,
TBS '95,
-Aloha

Logger

Hey,

I'm a USMC reservist (former flyer, local desk job now.) I am also in the SWA pool for hire. I have an offer for extended orders at my reserve work. I will realize an improvement in q of l from current airline gig--which isn't all that bad all of the time--its just a product of the times. Anyway, I would be disappointed if I took these orders after 18 months of swa pool time and then missed a class in the fall for a military commitment. PD says they will contact us soon and not hiring at this time. I imagine the Corps will want 12 month orders from this May. What say you?

Kdog18

Aloha,

I think his "corp" stands for "corporation" vice "Corps". I could be wrong though. What company (TBS '95)? Fox '95 (blizzard '96 was no bueno!)

Logger,

You do have a decision to make. We are still overmanned; March lines were not rigged (min guarantees). There are still a lot of min paying trips though.

Do you know where you fall in the pool? Top, middle, bottom, .... Though it may not matter much. We are still overmanned and can pretty much absorb the 10 a/c we are scheduled to get this year without hiring a person (this includes not retiring the a/c we have scheduled). JMO though. The FO JA rate may tick up, prompting a NH class or two. NH classes run around 20 - 25 folks. We have a about 20 CAs retiring this year, but not enough to make any movement. We have more flying in the summer months, and usual hire around this time to fill those summer seats. No classes today is not a good thing. Though training is busy with the RNP thing.

IMO, I don't think we'll hire much, if any this year. I do so hope I am wrong, but until the economy (primarily our industry) shows at least a couple quarters of growth, we'll just chug along doing what we are doing (or scheduled to do this year). We are putting some serious assets in DEN, & STL. GK is very happy with BOS, MSP and LGA, so I would not be surprised if he focuses on those cities this year (LGA may be the big pole in the tent here). Opening Panama Beach in May. We (junior pilots) are worried he intends to buy someone, I hope he does not. Don't think the stockholders are very happy with LUV these last few years. .... Ah you probably know better than I what our plans are.

Now, regarding your AR/AD gig. I'm guessing it is as a Herc crew chief? Deploying? I was told early last year (been awhile now), HQ is NOT writing AD orders for anything other than combat deployment. 24 months of getting shot at was enough for me; got the shirt, sans the medal Now I am just chugging along in the IRR, bits and pieces here and there. It's a personal choice; if I was single I would not have left AD, or been actively searching USMC gigs since I left. Now I prefer managing my kids T-ball team. Which at times is harder

Anyhow, good luck with your choice, and thank you for your service.

Semper Fi Marine!

-k

Kdog18

3 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off is standard. There are trips outside that basic model, but you get the idea. Commuters usually go for the 4-day trips; I am not one of the them. I commute but can't stand 4-day trips (& I used to do 7-month deployments with ease).

The money thing does get ahold of you, and you will probably pick up a trip or two (when you can, pickings have been slim these last 14 months or so).

This past month (Feb), flew 10 days (5 days at the beginning of the month, 5 ended yesterday - giant block of time off, got some serious skiing in!), paid 131 tfp (had a VJA day or two in there) and a smoking week of vacation. I commute. BTW, for me, that monthly rate is not even close to sustainable. I average 110 tfp / month (which equates to about 80 - 85 hours per non-vacation month). I do NOT pick up a lot of VJA though, so in domicile pilots usually crush this ratio.

I like almost everyone I fly with. Everyone has their 5%, I just have not flown with them (at least not in some time). Those who are "hard" to fly with find themselves moving around the system as their avoidance list gets long. Hotels are decent, 13 - 15 hours is kindof what you can expect on overnights. 1-2-3 is going away. FA are hit or miss, they are either real kool / nice, or not Slam clickers is more the norm nowadays.

If this job does not work out, for whatever reason, I'm going to Tahiti and gonna make shell necklaces and palm hats.

Good luck with your decision.

Logger

Its air officer staff work in a remain behind capacity. Not sure on length, but other rbe are 12-18 mos. My SWA situation is the only hindrance. Otherwise, current job is of course protected. We'll see. My current merry go-round of jobs is tolerable, but its tempting to just drive to work for awhile.