Easy to say, but a lot harder to do when management won't go along. It's not just the pilots, it every other work group that's working on the cheap.

Sadly, in many ways I think you are right. However, I think if the legacies can at least hold the line on scope, and watch the 50 seaters bleed out then maybe the additional 70+ jets that the managements need will be seen in legacy paint. I hate talking like that because I am sensitive to the fact that that means loss of jobs at the regional level. Believe me, I am not at all callous about that. My hope is that the two events will somehow coincide with a better economy, and management's hand will be forced into bringing them here. THAT is the perfect storm that we have all longed for. My fear is [deleted political comments] Here's to positive thoughts.

I agree with everything you said except that ALPA is a wide body senior CA's Union. It has always been that way. If senior pilots running ALPA wanted it, regional pilots would have been brought on board mainline list long time ago. SkyWest has over 200 CRJ200s. Pinnacle has many CRJ200s. So does ASA. After their contract expires, which won't be for another 5 to 10 years, God only knows what the state of this industry will be. Future does not bode well for junior mainline and regional pilots.

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I have seen that article and I disagree with an important theme of his re the proliferation of rj flying through relaxed scope:

"....This did not result from some stingy, scrooge-like effort by management; it was standard operating labour procedures that used scope liberalisation as currency to wrest gains for mainline pilots, which ultimately came at the expense of their regional counterparts. With friends like that..…as the saying goes...."

The framework for the explosion of regional flying was already in place when the RJ came along, scope has been relaxed most recently to protect on the downside rather than to "wrest gains", and its hard to make the case that relaxing scope has come at the "expense" of regionals.

All that being said, I agree with him that negotiations in the immediate future will be enormously important, and I have the feeling that for mainline pilots, protecting scope will be of the utmost importance to take priority over all else.

Pilots have been, for the longest time, their own worst enemies. Those senior, well placed pilots, have finally made some headway in the rat race, and therefore are afraid of losing what they have worked hard for (and understandably so.) Junior guys are only too happy to enhance their resumes and salary levels (also understandably so.)

Consequentially, those senior pilots who have the advantage - shaky though that advantage may be, are concerned with: dooming their own careers, losing what has taken them a lifetime to build, and jeopardizing their chances of further advancement, by making attempts at leveling the playing field. Whilst junior pilots are simply trying to see their career goals come to fruition - also concerned with contributing to the leveling of the playing field because such actions may require short-term discomfiture, or a stalling of their own careers. In relatively rare and completely unforgivable situations, we have pilots turning scab in order to obtain one of four things or any combination thereof: a better salary/work rules, the left seat, the flying of the newest and "best" equipment/schedules/routes, or simply to keep flying and thus keep the almighty logbook growing.

The power to make a change passes from pilot group to pilot group. Each time a pilot group enters contractual renegotiation, they not only represent the interests of their own community, but the welfare of the entire American pilot community. The choices the current spotlight pilot group makes, the victories won, and the concessions lost set a standard by which corporate types and government mediators form their positions - and let's not be naive, the government has not made a habit of acting in our favor; the evidence is in the Railway Labor Act, and past mediated decisions.

Scope and Open Skies with foreign airlines are the two issues most dangerous to all our careers. Pay, work rules, and benefits are all moot, if we wake up one day to have a bunch of Chinese (no offense intended to actual Chinese-Americans or Chinese pilots working in the US) operated airlines, with Chinese pilots, flying Chinese built RJs, for Chinese wages.

Only by restricting Scope can the mainline be expanded, can mainline pilots be secured, and can new pilots be brought to mainline operations. Let us not be concerned with "taking back" flying; rather, let us recognize an enemy to all airline pilots, whether they be mainline, regional or cargo. This common enemy is Scope. Only by realizing that past concessions, deals, etc., is water under the bridge, can we set about applying positive action - and therefore causing the extermination of this mutual enemy.

It is my opinion, that should a contractual renegotiation end with a powerful restriction on Scope, but only a two dollar raise in pay, then it was a good negotiation with a lot of ground gained. Just as with anything else, the road to recovery is not traveled in one giant flying leap, but many smaller, more manageable steps. We all know ALPA isn't going to represent our best interests without a strong and unified voice from all pilots.

My envisioning of future Scope clauses is such: Jet aircraft to be flown by contracted carriers are limited to legs less than 800 nautical miles, restricted from connecting two major cities (i.e. New York and Chicago), restricted to 50 seats or less, and restricted to operating no more than two flights between the same two points per day. Turbo Prop aircraft flown by contracted carriers are limited to legs 400 nautical miles or less (a better definition of "regional" flying), and limited to 50 seats or less, as well as restrictions on specific cities pairings per the judgment of individual mainline pilot groups.

Now, I know that most mainline guys don't want to be bothered flying the small aircraft, much less a turboprop - but consider that those aircraft would be junior aircraft, and also consider how much hiring a mainline airline would have to do in order to staff their small aircraft needs. Also consider that payrates more appropriate would be able to be negotiated, under such a scheme.

I know talk is cheap, but at least its just my two cents.

So you are admitting defeat? Management wins, more 70 seat or larger flyig is lost and the regionals just grow larger.

The big kicker is... how do we make it an incentive for management to even begin to want to fold in the outsourced flying?

Why would they want to give up their ultimate weapon against us all? The value of the whipsaw is virtually priceless.

I am absolutely 100% for taking back scope completely... Down to making the big concession on our end of just stapling the RJ drivers instead of having them go through screening in order to join. I have yet to have a practical idea on how to motivate management to give back the outsourcing.

THAT is the $64,000 question.

This might be true... to a point... the union can only tell the company what the conditions are for which we will perform the work. We cannot control things like what airplanes the company chooses to buy, where they choose to fly them, executive compensation.. etc etc. With that in mind, unless we are willing to completey bend over and basically fly for free, the decision has... had to be made as to how low we would go as mainline pilots in order to get that work.. and even then there is no guarantee that the company would have bought those airplanes. I agree that this was a tactical mistake because of the proliferation of those jets and the ability of managements to be able to whipsaw all the companies against each other. I still maintain that it is misplaced anger to blame the mainline pilots for the woes at the regionals because those pilot groups signed their own contracts.. which are substandard.. and the downward spiral gains speed... sorry for the ramble..

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Part of the problem is the idea that mainline pilots are superior to regional pilots. Several of our captains have thousands of hours more flying experience then many mainline first officers. Why would they give up their pay, seat and job security to be stapled behind someone with years less experience?

If you really want to merge both groups, then both groups will have to want to merge. Regional newhires will jump at the chance to be stapled, but the senior half of most pilot lists will not. They'll fight it. Without their cooperation, it will never happen.