You will have to strike to get that. Period.

This isn't about the cost to run the jet with a mainline crew. Never was.

The ability to outsource and whipsaw is simply too valuable to the company. It makes sure that you AWAYS have to pay for scope, at every negotiation. Every time you open the contract, the company asks "what's it worth to you to KEEP what you have?". When you have to pay for scope every time, you have less to buy other goodies.

Scope should have been off limits from day one. We should tell the company now "Don't even ask".

Nu

Nu, I hope that with the events this week in MCO, that becomes a standard.

The "it depends" factor is the economy. If it is smokin' and DAL is printing money, a strike might not be necessary. But for the most part you are absolutely correct.

Why? To get on a mainline list, to have the possibility of a wide-body, international future....same reason everyone makes the sacrifice required to get there.

Sea no kidding.

The problem and Jake hits on it, is why would someone give up a 100K a year job to be at the bottom of a stagnant mainline list?

See to help right this profession the water needs to break when it comes to scope. There needs to be a decisive victory to prove to these pilots that stagnating in the right seat of a 100 dollar an hr job only adds to the issue.

When a pilot makes that decision to stay, they then make it their mission to see flying come off the mainline list and to theirs. Reverse the last decade of stagnation and you deal with this conflict.

IMO winning on scope is the answer, not dressed up flow through agreements.

It's not an issue of "experience". It's an issue of expectations.


Then the senior guys will be sitting in the left seat of an RJ for the rest of their career. Problem solved. The FOs will get hired and by the time their time is on an equal footing they will make waaaay more money than the guys still sitting in the left seat of that RJ. Cut off your nose and all..:rolleyes:

The problem with this entire thread is that airline unions do not control seniority lists. Hiring, firing, merging or not merging are management functions. Management at airlines control the seniority lists. ALPA can push management to merge a airline or pilot group but they can't mandate it. Very few airline managements are going to merge all their pilots onto one list. It would shift the balance of power way to much in favor of pilots. If in fact management wants to have one list at Delta or any other airline all they have to do is merge the airlines. DALPA or ALPA would have no say or control in the matter just as they have no say or control in forcing one list outside of asking for it in section 6 negotiations. I am always amazed at pilots who believe for some reason that the seniority list is maintained and controlled by the union and we could merge comair or asa just by deciding to do it. Nothing could be further from reality.

The vast majority of 250 hour wonders lack the PIC time upgrade much less qualify for flying with the majors. Is that what you want? A pilot who has 20 hours of solo PIC time and 8000 SIC in the right seat of your 300 passenger airliner?

Sailing, the union has way way way more power than you give them credit for.

You mean pilots aren't the center of the universe?