Thank you! Glad someone else thought so.

Hockey-

Getting on with Delta is no small feat. The guys who are there now are well connected, lucky and/or both. You are one such guy.

I have the requisite experience and two internal recs. No email. Am I upset? Hell no. There are tens of thousands of guys just like me out there. Most of us will never have the opportunity to interview; the odds aren't in our favor.

I'll just keep updating and networking in hopes that something will work out.

Forgive us for being a little upset that a great opportunity to get our dream job is in jeopardy of being pulled out from under us.

I hope that the MECs and the MGMT teams will do the right thing and honor what they advertised when pilots accepted their jobs. You want to end it, thats okay too but tell the newly hired folks that there is not a flow-thru. Good luck getting anyone to accept those wages without it.

Its not right to allow these management teams to hire people on the premise of future career earnings, and then when it comes time to deliver simply run a play out of the shell game book.

My point was not to go after Hockey, but to point out that there are many opinions and perspectives here.

Welcome to the wonderful world of aviation...

C44 has an e-mail out, they are looking for you're input. Let them know what your thoughts are regarding the flows and scope.

Whatever....The LEC/MEC does what they want and will tell us what's best for us.:mad:

(TIC, it is really a positive sign that the MEC and now LEC44 are actively soliciting input from their constituents.)

DO THE SURVEYS AND ENCOURAGE THE "APATHY PILOTS" TO DO SOMETHING TOO!

Shiz,
They are busy, and taking the input. Good on them.

But they will get rid of airplanes that DO make money (SAAB)

The compass folks just got an email saying the compass president has been called to ATL next week to discuss the flow. Im trying to find out if this is the first of the 4 party talks or just a management meeting. Either way Im glad it seems everyone is interested in figuring this thing out sooner rather than later.

Will the owner/president of Trans States have any input also?

I doubt it. Although any thing is possible in this industry. Currently just Compass CEO and Compass negotiation group. The schedule may change somewhat as we just lost a ALPA Captain to a car accident yesterday in Carroll ND. Captain Steve Peterka was the ALPA secretary treasuer. He was involved with the recent meetings between DALPA and Compass. He was a great leader and pilot.

He received the ALPA airmanship award for his actions with a onboard fire in 2008. I imagine this will have a lasting impact on the Compass pilot community and could cause a impact with the entire process.

Some may know Captain Peterka from his time flying the DC10 for Sun Country, the 747 for Polar or the Airbus for Jet Blue.

Tailwinds Steve. :(

Prayers for your Family & Friends. :(

I stand correctged the accident happened in carrington nd. The article can be found at the bismarck tribune. Also google his name and you can read up on his alpa superior aviation skills award for his handeling of a lav fire at 32000 feet. The aviation field lost one of the "good guys"

Here's the link:
ALPA News Release

FL320 to touchdown in 8 min 30 sec, and none too soon: the fire was out of control by the time they got it down, and had burned through the lavatory sidewall.

Rest in Peace Peterka

Recently heard of this tragic accident as well. Having gone through new hire training with Steve I think we both agree he was a great guy. I hadn't seen him in several years until this past Wed. I ran into him in the jetbridge in IAD as he was leaving from the weeks ALPA meetings and he seemed upbeat about his upcoming chance to go to DAL in the second class. It is truly sad to see something like this happen just short of someones realized goals.

I believe he was also our block 1 rep as well.

RIP Steve we will all remember you and the great stories.

Yes, the regional airlines (the company) have made gains but I are you seriously saying that the massive growth at the regionals is a gain for those pilots? If you are, I would have to paraphrase you and say PUH-LEEZ!!!!! More FO jobs that top out between $37-$44 are not gains!

In the last decade scope has been loosened to prevent larger pay cuts and further errosion of contracts. If this isn't the case then why give up scope? It's part of the contracts that have been used in bargaining. Smaller rather than larger paycuts is a gain.

Yes, & the regional have benefited 10 fold. Far more then anything the Majors received, especially since most are still operating on BK wages.

Your argument fails.

Considering the amount of lifers at regionals, yes. They've made a conscious decision to stay because they are too comfortable with their schedules and padding below them. I heard countless CAs @ ExpressJet yap about how they didn't want to be on reserve again, they didn't want to sit an airplane for more then 2 hours at a time, they could afford the pay cut, blah, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, countless pilots junior to them have moved on to higher paying jobs @ DAL, CAL, NWA, JB, Emirates, Omni, Atlas, Cathay and more.

Is there something wrong with not wanting to be a Delta pilot?

Regional airlines have benefited (grown) 10 fold but where have the regional pilots benefited 10 fold? It sure isn't in wages and career earnings! If you believe that the regional pilots goal was to be a regional pilot rather than work for a major then yes, they have benefited 10 fold. Somehow I don't believe that most regional pilots went to school to work for the regionals. How many dream to fly a Canadair vs a Boeing?

I'm glad that you brought up BK wages. Let's look at compass. NWA pilots authorised compass in their BK contract. The compass contract is even worse than NWA's BK contract! That is pretty sad when pilots sign BK contracts (that most seem to hate) and then sign off on a worse one for a newly formed wholey owned. What do they really care though, they aren't gonna work under it, only that regional will. But hey I'm sure compass pilots benefited 10 fold on that one! I mean what could be better than work for compass and then have to start over when you go to NWA (now delta). Benefits all around for starting over at 1st year pay and longevity.

The argument is still fulling intact but waiting for your rebuttal on how regional pilots have benefited 10 fold by outsourcing.

It's really not that hard to understand. BK judges allowed ridiculous amounts of outsourcing, & as a result thousands of RJ CA jobs opened up. Pilots instantly passed up years of flight instructing, pipeline patrol, flying checks, etc. Many stepping stones were flat out taken out of the process.

I myself benefited from this RJ explosion by holding RJ CA in less then 2 years. Many friends are the same. The fact is that stagnation has occured due to the economy and the inefficiency of the 50 seater. You can blame wages on Mainline all you want, but they're not the ones that voted in wages at ExpressJet, Colgan, Comair, Mesa, RAH, etc. Their own pilot groups voted for those rates. Compass was a unique situation which I wasn't a part of.

Not at all.
If you can get more money and a better lifestyle elsewhere.

For airline pilots, Delta has to be one of the top choices right now.
There are certainly others. (although not many if you're being honest)

BUT, the whole airline pilot profession ain't what it used to be.
The job is still more fun than most, but the compensation has been decimated.
If I was young and ambitious, I'd seriously consider another line of work.

Yes. How could anyone in their right mind not want to be part of the order of the widget? ;)




Of course not... you're in a thread about Delta though so what did you think you were going to be reading about? There's a few southwest threads around... You should ask them the same thing.

I have heard a certain amount of Compass pilots have received their "flow" paperwork.

Congrats.

TYG

True, and on their behalf thanks!

Yes, congrats & welcome! :)

I completely agree it really isn't that hard to understand. The airlines used scope in their bargaining for their gains.

If judges allowed the ridiculous amounts of outsourcing that is because the pilots signed off on it. If there is a judge out there that forced outsourcing without the pilots approval please let me know because I have not heard of a single BK judge taking flying from the majors.

I'm not arguing that CA positions didn't open up. There have always been shorter and longer upgrades at the regionals. It's cyclical and this one held onto the shorter upgrade time because of the 50 seaters. I remember people upgrading in less than a year prior to the 50 seaters and I remember people upgrading in over 5 years. It all depends on your timing. Those stepping stones that you speak of were only removed for a brief period of time and I'm betting they've been reinserted again. Very short term gain unless you got lucky and had the right timing like yourself.

I'm not making the argument that Mainline is responsible for regional pay but they aren't blameless either. The point was that they were able to get deeper cuts by having compass do the flying rather than if mainline did it under their Bk contract. Even if they gave Compass the same contract they would get savings out of the outsourcing by having the compass pilots start over at 1st year pay and longevity when/if they flowed up. It's bigger cuts that they put on future/other pilots and not themselves.

Just a point, the BK judges did not throw out the NWA or DAL contracts. LOA's were TAed and voted on in both filings. The pilots then voted on these changes under the threat of solvency and a judge throwing the contracts out. No action was taken, just the threat of it.

Kinda like if you go into a bank and point a gun at a teller and they give you a bag of money, but you never actually pull the trigger.

Did you really rob the bank? Or did the teller "voluntarily" give you the money because that looked like the best alternative at the time?

except that you've been robbed in the past but this time you threw in your kids (airplanes) because they would continuously produce more money. at some point you have to draw the line.

I am not discrediting the threat. Pilots realize the danger with the Judge allowing the company to impose a contract, and take it seriously, that threat was never converted. Yes, the companies used the leverage of the court, but it was the threat of action, not the action itself. It really is an unknown since it was never used. Good thing too, but we came to an "agreement" the judge did not allow a contract to be thrown out and a new one imposed. Ego my point.

I think a better analogy is someone walking into a bank and handing the teller a note: "I have a bomb. I'll set it off if you don't give me $10,000." Does he have a bomb, and will he use it? No idea, but the consequences of guessing wrongly are too high, so you give the guy the money. (Actually you trip the silent alarm and stall for time, but that ruins the analogy!)

Nobody knew whether the judge would really throw out the entire contract, or whether he might just impose the "everything DC9 and smaller is outsourced" scope section the company was proposing. But the simple threat of either of those outcomes was enough to convince the pilot groups that NewCo (in the case of NWA, and various numbers of outsourced 76-seaters everywhere else) was more acceptable.

Compass guys just got an update from our MEC in thier email box. Proposals were issued at the "big meeting" on wednesday. Everybody is now reviewing them. No mention of future meeting dates.

That darn saying, "I" before "E" except after "C" does not work on the word "THEIR" :eek::):)

TYG

I guess they don't teach spelling at Embry Riddle. :D

U gusy are graet. Anwyays the inof is out theer.

:rolleyes:

Yea what a dumbass, I don't want that guy working at MY company.

Don't worry I'll get stew back on the next plane swap :D