OOfff

Right here, when you posted a factually incorrect comment intended to say that military guys aren’t crashing planes:

It’s okay to walk it back and say you were out of line.

pangolin

Military or not - it’s not the old guys.

Gone Flying

you literally gave these guys a free pass. btw AA1420 was also 2 ex mil pilots and had nothing to do with the MD80 they were flying.

OOfff

It’s pilots of all ages. Still doesn’t mean that 65 isn’t reasonable as a mandatory age

rickair7777

We'll have to disagree on that.

For clarity I was talking about recent pax accidents involving fatalities. Recent being this century. Cargo is apples to oranges.

TankerDriver

Ok.. let's not turn this into a military vs. civilian pilot thing. Military pilots have crashed plenty of military aircraft. Civilian pilots have crashed plenty of commercial aircraft and of course we can account for more than a handful of ex-military pilots involved in commercial aircraft crashes over the last few decades. We're all human. We can argue that military pilots are better trained than their civilian counterparts, but we can also say most civ-only pilots have more hours in the air given the same years of experience. When the holes align in the swiss cheese, things like fatigue, complacency, sensory overload, disorientation, weather phenomenon, mechanical failure, etc. can all kill the best of us. I have flown with some questionable pilots during my time in the military. Our vetting process is fairly cut-throat and we've got some excellent aviators, but all of the mil-IP types here can attest to flying with a few questionable pilots during their military careera who will most likely be commercial pilots some day, if not already. You know who those people are (the career copilots). May not happen too often in the CAF world, but AMC has plenty of them.

OOfff

“For clarity, I was intentionally limiting my sample to one accident because I totally understand statistics”

It’s almost hilarious how hard you’re trying to give a free pass you claim to not be giving.

rickair7777

Calling it like I see it. If it makes you feel any better, I think the problem with civilian pilots in general is that the standards are inconsistent and vary wildly over time. The actual standards are driven by economics, and the rock bottom legal standard is marginal, even with 1500 hours. We may be approaching another low point. So nothing against any particular civilian pilot, it's more the system (of which I'm an alumni).

In the last century if you looked for a problem with pilots, it was probably going to be a drunk ex-mil pilot with dangerous attitudes of one type or another. Today it's the crop of civilian noobs, hired for their ability to qualify for ATP aeronautical experience mins with little to no regard for personality or attitudes. If you don't see that, you're probably a senior widebody pilot at the big three.

Regularguy

The problem with civil verses military training isn't the lack of standards it's the lack of a disciplined continued training and checking process. The military takes men and women with zero experience and by the time they get 250 hours they are flying combat missions in highly advanced airplanes and often carrying weapons of mass destruction.

If you want the civil programs to mirror those of the military then you'd better get a huge FAA budget for oversight and regular evaluations.

BTW the reason you don't hear of military crashes is because it rarely involves the deaths of civilians. The military is about death and destruction in an effort to protect the rest of us. When a single seat fighter goes down it just doesn't make the news in the same way as a MAX.

But the question at hand of this thread is 70 year old pilots. Personally, as I approach those years, my opinion is we need to move over and let the next generation advance the throttles. To do otherwise is basically delusional and selfish (of course those two may go hand in hand).

Gone Flying

I am not trying to turn this into civ/mil and am genuinely sorry if it came across that way. thanks for the summary and from my experience as a civ only pilot I can see that most mil pilots I have flown with are really good. I just get annoyed when people say things like all airliners crash due to civ pilots.