Nortonious

Exactly right. Let's not go there. I wasn't a fan of age 65, but I'm less a fan of something like this.

forgot to bid

the joke is on me.

I think it was one of the "wanna get away" SWA commercials where the guy is sitting in the doctor's exam room and the doctor is putting on his gloves but he's struggling to get the gloves on because his hands are 3x larger than they should be. so funny.

So I go off doing a google search for that picture, so funny, so right on topic..... except, I guess my search filter isn't strong enough and it showed pictures of real rectal exams from the WRONG angle.

...computer is going away for the rest of the day....

gloopy

The problem with that is there is simply no way to screen for the age-related inevitable. If you allow a "fly til you die" system and then try to backstop it with medical and proficiency testing, unless you test every single day for both, you won't catch problems until after it is too late. Age 60 and even more for age 65, pilots well past not only their peak but what is safe in our operating environments continue to plow ahead and test the system's numerous other built in safety layers. The fact is cognitive/reflexive abilities as well as basic medical issues that have serious effects on safety, many of which can be categorized as fairly rapid onset and all of which are strongly correlated with age, makes an age related cutoff completely justifiable. We try and balance it with "fairness" and yes even economic reasons, but in the end not coming up with an age cutoff number is irresponsible and a threat to safety.

You simply can not catch every indivual pilot's cognitive/reflexive/medical cutoff in a system where you abolish a mandatory retirement age. Age 65, which should be 60 but was changed for purely political reasons, is still a vital backstop to the inevitable human race against the realities of aging and there is no system even possible that can accurately and reliably catch the increased threat correlated with age on a daily basis.

Nortonious

oooohhhh!! Think I hurt my neck from a simultaneous cringe and laugh. In fact I just about LMAO. Not the first google-surprise I've heard of or experienced, but quite possibly the worst. Will staring at the sun burn away the image?

captfurlough

Every pilot with an ATP should be man (or woman) enough to call it quits when they notice they're missing things and not up to it anymore. That will vary witht the genetic makeup of each individual, their health, their lifestyle, etc.

That said, it's a pipe dream. Just not gonna happen. We all know pilots that haven't been able to do this.

But the reality is that arbitrary ages don't work either. Too many variables. And those of you who are young and looking for the retirements so that you can take your "rightful seat in the cockpits from these old guys"....that's OK, but remember that one day you too, will have been through strikes, furloughs, mergers, seniority list integrations, and retirement funding interuptions that weren't always predictable; and you may want to retire at 60, or 62, or even 65, but find that financially you're not in a position to....so be careful how you view things....what goes around comes around. Be fair to yourselves by looking at the career as a whole, not just where you happen to be at the moment.

PCL_128

Agreed. Paul has always been on the forefront of these issues, and pilots would be wise to listen to him. There are some serious threats to our career coming from the international stage (cabotage, open skies, MPL, etc.). We need to prepare for them and figure out ways to combat them.

The ALPA Bylaws do not allow you to mandate your representatives through the use of a resolution at a Local Council meeting, anyway. The best way to direct your reps about the upcoming National Officer elections is merely to call and email them. Let them know that we need a change, and it's time for someone with some real experience to take over.

This isn't true. We operate under several ICAO exemptions in the United States, and many other countries do as well. For example, some countries have absolutely no mandatory retirement age. There was nothing stopping the United States from continuing its Age 60 rule under an ICAO exemption.

gloopy

Of course there are many variables. No one claims an arbitrary age solves the issue in its entirety. A cutoff age is merely one of several necessary backstops. Knowing when to quit, medical and proficiency testing AND a cutoff age are ALL vital. Sometimes one or both of those "systems" fail or are evaded somehow, which is why you need them all.

Even then, there will still be some who slip through the cracks or things happen that can not possibly be predicted or tested for under any circumstance. But a cutoff age for a job that is strongly dependant on a multitude of mental, medical, physical and cognitive variables is absolutely justified, prudent and fair.

The right of that one rare person every now and then to fly into his 90's when able is trumped by the over all obligation for safety for all, which most certainly is, very strongly, correlated with age, among many other things and is furthermore a fundamental right of not only the traveling public, but those on the ground and the pilots sitting next to these politically correct test pilots.

nicholasblonde

I'm thinking the FAA will be operating under a significant ICAO exemption soon anyways, regarding the ATP min for air carrier FOs...I guarantee there is at least one foreign FO flying a heavy (or DEFINITELY Canadadian ops such as Westjet) with less than an ATP...do you see the International Community bending over backwards with their regs to require an ATP? Heck no...

gloopy

Of course not. They love their "chosen from birth" ab initio stuff. Tey truly think it is part of what makes them (in their own minds) superior to all who have ever taken to the skies. Not sure what that has to do with this discussion though. Most US pilots are not "qualified" to fly in the EU in terms of being employed by an EU airline, yet many thousands fly in their airspace and land in their airports every day. Foreign exemptions will always be the case, at least until and unless we live under the fantasy of a one world government system.

f16jetmech

do you guys really think someone can hold a medical at 70? im sure very few can. chill out