Delta Pilots Association
10-18-2010 | 06:34 PM
#1381
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
YouTube - I Got Rhythm - Parody
(I wonder if he wears that shirt on layovers!)
10-18-2010 | 06:37 PM
#1382
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Oh come on, Carl. Slow's got rhythm. I even found a video of him playing piano to prove it! Check it out... perfect rhythm! (well, sorta)
YouTube - I Got Rhythm - Parody
(I wonder if he wears that shirt on layovers!)
YouTube - I Got Rhythm - Parody
(I wonder if he wears that shirt on layovers!)
Carl
10-18-2010 | 06:54 PM
#1383
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: No to large RJs
Carl's in a Zone!
Last edited by DAWGS; 10-18-2010 at 07:11 PM.
10-18-2010 | 07:05 PM
#1384
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
Yes. We have such a bright future to look forward to with the new administration. The new President doesn't even list scope and RJ's as a threat in his very long list of threats. ALPA backs reduced fatigue, then signs off on the opposite. ALPA backs 1500 hours, then pulls its support for it.
Just keep doing the same thing over and over while hoping for a different result ACL. I think you know what they call that.
Carl
Just keep doing the same thing over and over while hoping for a different result ACL. I think you know what they call that.
Carl
If the hours reduction is true, I blame one man. He is on Jan 1 no longer the lead man. If LM does the same thing, I will have issues with it to. I prefer 750 because you can still buy 500 hrs without a job. 750 is much harder to obtain with a credit card.
DALPA negotiates my Scope section, and I trust the reps that are in place for my LEC to do the right thing. They were elected to do that.
I see you having issues with people like I do, not the structure called ALPA. People can and should be changed. Policies should be changed, but it is my opinion that you will not find a better framework than what ALPA's is.
10-18-2010 | 07:08 PM
#1385
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
That all sounds good, but it's really just theory at this point. There is absolutely no guarantee (or even likelihood IMO) that we would "pattern up" with greater frequency. What I think would happen is we would get smaller increases with pretty much the same frequency as we negotiate now. In the meantime, we set the tone that we are okay with the small increases and that we consider our current situation a new baseline of sorts.
To me, this is a HUGE risk to take with an unproven concept and something as important as our compensation, which needs to be dug out of a 50% hole.
To me, this is a HUGE risk to take with an unproven concept and something as important as our compensation, which needs to be dug out of a 50% hole.
The same could be said for the boom bust of C 96, C2K and then LOA's 46 and 51. (and of course an independent union at Delta.)
I would like to find a way to get restoration while breaking the trend of these restoration contracts followed by givebacks. That cycle sucks and I am ok with trying something else to see if it works. We always can fall back to our old ways. That part is easy.
10-18-2010 | 07:14 PM
#1386
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
10-18-2010 | 07:26 PM
#1387
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
What does having "issues with it" mean? This is more of that slippery language you use so often. Does it mean you'll give serious consideration to a new in house union, or just working harder to change ALPA from within? Issues?
Carl
10-18-2010 | 08:02 PM
#1388
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 0
From: B737 CAPT IAH
I beleive that the biggest issue is that the rank and file prefer to fight each other than to unite behind a common goal(s). It is easy to throw stones, but quite another to volunteer to do the work that needs to be done. Getting involved is the biggest thing any pilot can do. Do not like the answers demand change, and the best way to do that is to make sure that there are people that are like minded working with you.
Like you have said, the dogma and doctrine are not the issues, it is the interpretation. Find people that interpret it better. We are the people that will be involved with DPA. Our pilots are now predominately in the lead ALPA positions so the it is more than likely that the same people would filter to the top here. We are not ALPA Leadership. If we end up not liking them, the same will be true for DPA in a few cycles.
Like you have said, the dogma and doctrine are not the issues, it is the interpretation. Find people that interpret it better. We are the people that will be involved with DPA. Our pilots are now predominately in the lead ALPA positions so the it is more than likely that the same people would filter to the top here. We are not ALPA Leadership. If we end up not liking them, the same will be true for DPA in a few cycles.
I am one of those guys that sees serious issues with that "common goals" target ever being hit in the current day environment.
Take a look at the big picture and tell me how ALPA can truly pursue gains for all members at this point. Say UAL/CAL achieve serious scope improvement during their JCBA negotiations.....gain for them....who's going to loose their job....an ALPA member flying at a regional in most cases. True, there are many UAL express that are not ALPA, but you get my point.
And the questions could go on about NPRM, ATP 1500, or whatever. The fact is, an answer that benefits one demographic of ALPA negatively impacts another.
Perhaps not a conflict of interest, but a conflict nonetheless. I don't see a strategic plan that shows a true plan of attack that will ultimately improve the whole membership at this point. Rather a poor day to day reaction that simply perpetuates the decline of the profession.
It is the paradigm shift and the realization of the fact that ALPA cannot resolve that conflict that will probably make movements such as DPA eventually succeed in my opinion. One was tried at UA about 4 years ago. Failed, but they may have been a little ahead of the bow wave and poorly timed. If DPA succeeds, given Moak is, one of their own, I think the writing is on the wall for ALPA's decline.
My 2 centavos.
Frats,
Lee
Last edited by LeeFXDWG; 10-18-2010 at 08:16 PM.
10-18-2010 | 08:29 PM
#1389
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 169
From: window seat
The same could be said for the boom bust of C 96, C2K and then LOA's 46 and 51. (and of course an independent union at Delta.)
I would like to find a way to get restoration while breaking the trend of these restoration contracts followed by givebacks. That cycle sucks and I am ok with trying something else to see if it works. We always can fall back to our old ways. That part is easy.
I would like to find a way to get restoration while breaking the trend of these restoration contracts followed by givebacks. That cycle sucks and I am ok with trying something else to see if it works. We always can fall back to our old ways. That part is easy.
Lot of "ifs" in that equation though, but that is what it's going to take to break the mold. We shall see.
10-18-2010 | 10:46 PM
#1390
done, gone skiing
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: Rocking chair
"As for ALPA "capitulation " on the newhire 1500 hour proposal, someone send me a link where ALPA is saying that 500 hours is okay."
I am not sure if you will find it written. I believe it was a female RJ pilot representing ALPA at the ARC meetings that was advocating a waiver for those that attended schools like Embrey Riddle. I know that the staff at CAPA are familiar with it so call them.
Craig
I am not sure if you will find it written. I believe it was a female RJ pilot representing ALPA at the ARC meetings that was advocating a waiver for those that attended schools like Embrey Riddle. I know that the staff at CAPA are familiar with it so call them.
Craig
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