Splash

Right on! I keep waiting to see some sort of a plan from DPA. So far, nothing but assumptions and vague promises.

NuGuy

Agree. They seem to be firmly rooted in the abstract.

Nu

DAL 88 Driver

Why no we didn't. And I would be remiss if I didn't point out that LM was our MEC Chairman during this same time period. Not only did we NOT "get it back". We didn't even ASK to get it back!

Splash

Between the bankruptcy filing (September, 2005) and now, there have been no gains for the pilot group, and no significant achievements. No successful mergers, no difficult negotiations, no reductions in RJs.

You need fresh batteries in your memory.

gloopy

The DL/NW merger obviously went infinitely better than the US/AW merger. However I don't think you can credit that too much to Moak. Not saying he didn't play a significant role...he did...but he had an infinitely superior starting position and that can't be denied. If either DL or NWA had at the time a large group on furlough in addition to a vastly different relative seniority and fleet type/pay category issue like the US/AW merger, odds are 100% it would not have been nearly as smooth as it ended up.

And not to defend Prater one bit, but what was he supposed to do when both sides agreed to binding arbitration and then one didn't like the end result? Even if he was "successful" getting it overturned, a DOH-style integration would have been just as contentious and equally not viewed as a "success" by the other half of the merger and/or the rest of the entire industry.

Moak sold scope, defended it, claimed it was job security and is now the top guy in a regional heavy membership structure. Maybe he will do a good job. I agree 100% that we don't need a "burn it down" Dubinsky approach at the MEC or national level and that diplomacy paves the way for progress to a large extent. But defending, promoting or tolerating scope sales past, present or future, even and especially by dodging the issue in the first place, is unacceptable. That someone could be on record defending prior agreements allowing management to sell more and more of your flying to the lowest bidder, and then acting suprised that when they do exactly that then the flying you still have faces increased negative pressure on wages, especially after bragging about how such scope sales would benefit mainline pay in the first place, is absolute and complete insanity, lack of intellect or both. To then ignore the issue and pretend it will just go away just so you can get political points for a national office that you claimed on more than one occasion that you weren't guning for, well that is suspiscious at best.

Part of Prater's problem was yelling "taking it back" and then not. So Moak will solve the yelling about it problem. But will he actually do it? Is it fair for us to base our predictions on how he will handle things going forward based on his unappologetic actions in the past? If yes, then what exactly other than some extremely vague "working together" rhetoric leads us to believe he won't pencil whip any and every scope sale that comes along and in all likelyhood maybe even be behind most or all of them in the first place?

Using the DL/NW merger's relative success (and it really was, compared to almost any other large merger in history) what do we have to base such cockeyed optimism on? Especially in light of Moak's epic fail of a position on Scope previously and his complete lack of acknowledgement of the issue since then?

I'll give him a chance to the extent that we pretty much have to right now. But it will absolutely be trust but verify, which as we know is code for a significant lack of trust in the first place.

Splash

"Scope sales" is an interesting perspective in light of the dramatic reduction in RJs in the Delta brand. Delta is profitable, growing, and hiring pilots. The number of RJs continues to shrink. I think Moak had an big influence on those facts.

scambo1

--------

"Line in the sand."

Need I say more.

He had a bigger influence than me, he was the master chairman for crying out loud. He just did not proactively gain one inch of ground for the Delta pilots.

Carl Spackler

Come on Prater. No need to get nasty just because you lost.

Carl

Scoop

[QUOTE=Splash;889280]"Scope sales" is an interesting perspective in light of the dramatic reduction in RJs in the Delta brand. Delta is profitable, growing, and hiring pilots. The number of RJs continues to shrink. I think Moak had an big influence on those facts.[/QUOT

I think he meant Scope sales "happened" in the past, meaning Scope was sold. This does not preclude the number of RJs shrinking today, which is good news. Although I believe, economically, vice DALPA driven. The bad news, however is that 50 seaters are being replaced as much as allowable with 70 and 76 seaters, which by the way, someone mentioned will have in-flight internet capability installed. To me this means that they are here to stay.

As a side note, Don't believe anything you hear about Delta having any kind of "Brand." You can not have a "Brand" when you outsource to 10 different lowest bid service providers. When was the last time you checked into a Hilton and were told - "Here is your key, go down the hall out the door and across the street to the Motel 6 - your in room 255. Whats that? You thought you were staying in a Hilton Hotel? - Oh you must have missed the fine print on our website: Rooms often provided by Motel 6 and fly by night Hotel.

Scoop

Pineapple Guy

Could I please have your bankruptcy claim, bankruptcy notes, and merger equity then, since it obviously has no value to you...?