Delta Pilots Association
01-09-2011, 06:24 PM
#4061
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Sniper
So, speaking purely about hourly rates, preserving purchasing power is not a relevant factor in a new Delta contract, and exceeding the actual hourly rates of C2K should be the primary goal (when speaking ONLY about hourly rates, not any other factors such as scope, retirement, etc)?
Just trying to clarify your position.
Good luck with the DTW scope communications, in writing, of course.
Just trying to clarify your position.
Good luck with the DTW scope communications, in writing, of course.
Does that make sense?
Carl
01-10-2011, 01:29 AM
#4063
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,310
Originally Posted by tsquare
Riiiiiiight. So it was standard practice for CEOs to negotiate bankruptcy proof, taxes paid retirement plans? And not... one.... word.. from the association. Not... one... Sorry, I don't buy your argument. He knew what he had placed in motion. And on your minor point... they also know that they have labor as their ATM. The damage that man did to this company is mind boggling... It took a merger to undo it or we would still be peeling back the onion.
The SERPS were put into place almost 4 years after we set the pay standards on the new equipment and a full year after 911 when it was then becoming apparent that the airline industry was in deep trouble. The time line makes no sense. As a side note the company attempted to keep the Serps secret and their existence did not come out until the 03 annual report. There were put into place in late 02. They attempted to bury the info deep in the report but it eventually came out. There was a clear intent to deceive on the companies part.
01-10-2011, 04:43 AM
#4064
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The SERPS were put into place almost 4 years after we set the pay standards on the new equipment and a full year after 911 when it was then becoming apparent that the airline industry was in deep trouble. The time line makes no sense. As a side note the company attempted to keep the Serps secret and their existence did not come out until the 03 annual report. There were put into place in late 02. They attempted to bury the info deep in the report but it eventually came out. There was a clear intent to deceive on the companies part.
But you bolster my point somewhat when you say that the industry was in trouble when the SERPS were conceived... at that point, LM and the biyatch had NOTHING to lose... And what was the association's response?
01-10-2011, 05:19 AM
#4065
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Originally Posted by tsquare
Why doesn't it make sense? Do you think that the companies' business decisions are made on the spot? Management (contrary to popular belief) is not making plans for next week.. They are looking a long way down the road. They understand the trends. If you don't buy my argument.. even a little... why do you think LM gave us those payrates? It may not have been his ulterior motive, but I'll bet he thought about it at some point. Or do you think our negotiators were really that good? But you bolster my point somewhat when you say that the industry was in trouble when the SERPS were conceived... at that point, LM and the biyatch had NOTHING to lose...
And what was the association's response?
But you bolster my point somewhat when you say that the industry was in trouble when the SERPS were conceived... at that point, LM and the biyatch had NOTHING to lose... And what was the association's response?
Forewarned is Forearmed...
01-10-2011, 05:54 AM
#4066
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by satchip
T, don't lay it all on the door step of the Association. You guys lapped up that contract and those rates like hungry dogs. Your Neg Com was just following orders. I bet the polling showed the number one issue to the majority of your pilots was pay rates. Just like today, I might add.
Forewarned is Forearmed...
Forewarned is Forearmed...
No doubt. I have never argued otherwise. I know very well that when any TA comes out that 99.99999999% of the guys will open it straight to section 3. I GUARANTEE you that. It's human nature. Probably even more so now that pay is the biggest thing in the contract that is immediately felt. That is not my current discussion however.
01-10-2011, 06:21 AM
#4067
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The SERPS were put into place almost 4 years after we set the pay standards on the new equipment and a full year after 911 when it was then becoming apparent that the airline industry was in deep trouble. The time line makes no sense. As a side note the company attempted to keep the Serps secret and their existence did not come out until the 03 annual report. There were put into place in late 02. They attempted to bury the info deep in the report but it eventually came out. There was a clear intent to deceive on the companies part.
The SERPS were particularly troubling, especially in light of the tremendous sacrafices that burdend the rest of the employees.
Despite how bitter and distasteful the SERPS were, management was doing what they do best. They were looking out for themselves. It was not personal, its just business.
Remember that as we continue going forward, particularly over the next several years. If ALPA eventually comes out and states restoration as our goal, there will be much passing of judgement on the merits of this by others. These others being our largely non union brothers and sisters, and of course management. Just remember when feeling the need to appease the others that.... It's just business.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lbell911
Regional
23
04-22-2012 10:33 AM
