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01-30-2011 | 06:47 PM

#4271

80ktsClamp

Da Hudge

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 17,473

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From: Poodle Whisperer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

I'm sure Moderator School was quite a challenge for you, so I'll be nice.

Scope has nothing to do with whether or not the jets fly. Scope determines who flies them when they do. That is Section 1.

I'm special, so they let me be one and give me a lollipop for trying.

As far as your response, no crap. How on earth do the stats you posted give any credit to alpa for a great job on scope? slowplay and sailing have done it numerous times thinking they are making some great point. You've just committed the same party foul...

01-30-2011 | 06:48 PM

#4272

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

PS.. if you want a real referendum on alpa.. do away with agency shop...

Oooohhh! Now that's the definition of pithy!

Carl

01-30-2011 | 06:51 PM

#4273

Splash

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Mar 2010

Posts: 335

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From: Boeing Boss

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

Really? What a quantum leap THAT was... You are SCARED that alpa would go down in flames if pilots weren't FORCED into paying the dues. Gah, you are so transparent.

Nope. I think many pilots would opt to do what's best for them individually from time-to-time, and that might have an adverse effect on our ability to negotiate higher pay for our work.

So you see that?

Please reassure me that you grasp the fundamental concept of collective bargaining.

01-30-2011 | 06:53 PM

#4274

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 12,109

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From: 767er Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Don't be so condescending you arrogant....

01-30-2011 | 06:55 PM

#4275

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

I see.

So management wouldn't want larger jets flown for less pay?

Nothing in our Section 1 prevents management from shifting the flying to the regionals for less?

Really?

Then why isn't Comair flying DC-9's for less? None of that has to do with the language in our contract?

You're difficult to discuss things with Splash, because you deflect so often. But I'll keep trying:

I'm not saying that our current Scope has no restrictions. I am saying that our current Scope has allowed the transfer of thousands of Delta pilot jobs to other entities. That's why the current Scope is not acceptable. It's why the current Scope MUST be strengthened.

Carl

01-30-2011 | 06:58 PM

#4276

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Nah, it means the actions of an individual in a specific situation doesn't necessarily indicate the policy of the entire group or organization.

It's just another example of you deflecting the debate when you lose. If you think nobody will notice, you're wrong.

Carl

01-30-2011 | 07:00 PM

#4277

Splash

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Mar 2010

Posts: 335

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From: Boeing Boss

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

As far as your response, no crap. How on earth do the stats you posted give any credit to alpa for a great job on scope? slowplay and sailing have done it numerous times thinking they are making some great point. You've just committed the same party foul...

Stats? I'm talking about the impact of our Scope. It affects the economics of the jets flown at the mainline and the regionals. Carl said the flying trends were economic decisions made by management.

They were. What's not being acknowledge by the ALPA-bashing gang is that the economics are driven by our Section 1. If we didn't have it, you would see Compass painted on the side of 777's....because of economics.

Regardless of your feelings about ALPA, please tell me you understand that part.

01-30-2011 | 07:05 PM

#4278

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Nope. I think many pilots would opt to do what's best for them individually from time-to-time, and that might have an adverse effect on our ability to negotiate higher pay for our work.

I don't believe most pilots would do that. If ALPA was truly representing us (like in the old days), agency shop wouldn't be needed. Now that they are not, agency shop is the only thing that is saving them. I believe that is tsquare's point...and he is exactly right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Please reassure me that you grasp the fundamental concept of collective bargaining.

The topic from tsquare was agency shop. Now you bring up collective bargaining. The two have nothing to do with each other. But it is yet another deflection on your part.

Carl

01-30-2011 | 07:07 PM

#4279

Splash

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Mar 2010

Posts: 335

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From: Boeing Boss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I'm not saying that our current Scope has no restrictions. I am saying that our current Scope has allowed the transfer of thousands of Delta pilot jobs to other entities. That's why the current Scope is not acceptable. It's why the current Scope MUST be strengthened.

Agree. Agree. Incorrect.* Agree.

* Our current Scope was ratified by the pilot group. I don't like it. I don't think anybody likes it. It wasn't preferred...but it WAS acceptable. It was forced upon us by management under the protections of the courts and the RLA. If you think even 10% of our pilot groups would have voted for this language outside of Chapter 11, then we have another area of disagreement.

01-30-2011 | 07:13 PM

#4280

Carl Spackler

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From: 747-400 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Carl said the flying trends were economic decisions made by management. They were.

Good...maybe we're getting somewhere. You were completely ignoring this earlier. Previously, you were asserting that the parking of 100 plus RJ's was due to our Section 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

What's not being acknowledge by the ALPA-bashing gang is that the economics are driven by our Section 1. If we didn't have it, you would see Compass painted on the side of 777's....because of economics.

All of us acknowledge that Splash...nobody has EVER said anything to the contrary. What we ARE saying is that our current Section 1 is totally inadequate. Because with the current restrictions of Section 1, thousands of Delta pilot jobs have been outsourced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splash

Regardless of your feelings about ALPA, please tell me you understand that part.

Nice straw man argument. You knock down an argument that only you are making. We notice that too.

Carl