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Old 02-09-2011, 03:12 PM
  #4371  
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Originally Posted by B7ER Guy View Post
January 31, 2011

Captain Lee Moak
President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
1625 Massachusetts Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20036

Captain Tim O’Malley
Chairman
Delta Master Executive Council
100 Hartsfield Centre Parkway, Suite 800
Atlanta, GA 30354

Lee and Tim,
I wanted to take a moment to let you know that I recently responded to an outreach from
Delta First Officer Xxx Xxxxxxxxx who contacted me in his capacity as the leader of the Delta
Pilots Association.
I made it perfectly clear to Mr. Xxxxxxxxx that in my opinion, a breakaway of the Delta
pilots from ALPA would likely prove highly disadvantageous for the Delta pilots and destructive
to our profession as a whole. When APA broke away from ALPA in 1963 the labor environment
for airline pilots in the United States was far different than it is today. JFK was the President at
the time and had recently come out strongly in favor of organized pilots in the Southern Airways
dispute of 1962. American’s pilots prospered during the benign days of regulation, but that
prosperity ended abruptly with the onset of deregulation.
I have always thought it is better to work within the existing political framework to
achieve reform than by wreaking havoc upon one’s organization. After I was hired at American,
I led the battle against the two-tier pay system – not by trying to tear things apart, but by working
within the system. Ultimately, with patience and perseverance, we prevailed.
I also expressed my significant concerns about the law firm Mr. Xxxxxxxxx's group has
enlisted as their counsel. The Allied Pilots Association had a previous relationship with the
Seham law firm and eventually dismissed them. Shortly after the Sehams were dismissed at
APA, they began coordinating with a pro-management dissident group at American called the
AICA which has been trying to destabilize and decertify APA ever since. They are also involved
on American’s property in a decertification effort with the TWU and were heavily involved with
the disaster which occurred with the mechanics at Northwest.
I further recommended that Mr. Xxxxxxxxx carefully evaluate his group’s present course
of action. I know that institutional inertia is a difficult thing to overcome, however I think that a
Delta breakaway from ALPA would further fracture and destabilize our profession and play right
into the hands of management teams across the industry. Lee and Tim, as you are well aware, I
am working in exactly the opposite direction – trying to move pilot unions closer together as
evidenced by the fact that APA has recently signed a services agreement with ALPA to help
APA negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement.
Finally, I asked Mr. Xxxxxxxxx to cease misrepresenting my position as part of his
recruitment efforts. I stand strongly behind the leadership at ALPA and have been working
diligently to forge closer cooperation and coordination between APA and ALPA. To be clear, I
will wield my veto power at CAPA to defeat any attempts by the DPA to make any sort of
overtures to CAPA.

Sincerely,
Captain Dave Bates
President

If Dave Bates wants to get closer to ALPA, perhaps, he should merge the APA with ALPA or better yet, let ALPA negotiate his Section 1.

All valid points though, and about the labor firm used by DPA... not good man!
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:27 PM
  #4372  
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DAL330, maybe that is the end game for APA. It would be great to get more of the powerhouse pilot groups back within ALPA. Good for them, good for us, and good for the profession.

I am all for bringing them back. It has been 50 years since they were in ALPA.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:11 PM
  #4373  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
DAL330, maybe that is the end game for APA. It would be great to get more of the powerhouse pilot groups back within ALPA. Good for them, good for us, and good for the profession.

I am all for bringing them back. It has been 50 years since they were in ALPA.

Based on Bates' speech posted on the "Latest" thread, it wouldn't surprise me to see them do just that, come back to ALPA. I heard LM himself express his desire to bring them, SWA and UPS on board ALPA. I say five years ago the APA membership would say hell no to changing horses but the level of frustration has reached a point where it wouldn't surprise me to see them go along with it. It won't happen until after the APA pilots have a contract and only if they end up not making any Scope concessions.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:20 PM
  #4374  
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I agree, but it would be good for the profession to see SWAPA, APA, and IPA all join forces under ALPA. Good things would happen.

With what is happening with foreign ownership et al, it is wise for all pilots to have one unified voice. Divided special interests at the national and international level will only hurt us.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:38 PM
  #4375  
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I wonder if there is anyone left at AA that even knows why they left ALPA in the first place...
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:02 PM
  #4376  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
I've been suspicious for some time now about ALPA national's agenda. Those suspicions were erased today by the latest Air Line Pilot magazine. The following is part of an interview of Capt Moak on page 12:

ALPA staff: What do you think are or should be ALPA's highest priorities in collective bargaining? Contract enforcement? Safety? Security?

Capt Moak: "...Local pilot leaders chart the course of negotiations and - through consensus of their members - make the decisions on priorities. At the national and international level, our highest priority is to help pilot leaders at different carriers visualize favorable contract patterns across the industry and provide the resources to reach a contract that ensures the greater good for the entire profession. Contracts that focus solely on self-interests will inevitably lower the high standards that this union has established for eight decades and in the end hurt all of us."

This should put to rest the myth that local leaders do the negotiating and decide their own contracts. I'm posting this on the Delta L&G thread as well.

Carl
Comedy Gold!

1. Carl tells us he's been "...suspicious for some time...". Look up disingenuous in the dictionary, and Carl's lead-in is the example.

2. He tells us ALPA and Moak cater to the RJ bunch, then doesn't read Moak's comments as advice to them: "...greater good for the entire profession.".

3. Local leaders and members chart/make priorities/decisions. National helps. Carl misses the verbs...

4. Posting his epiphany on TWO threads so that more can see it!

Brilliant!
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:13 PM
  #4377  
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Originally Posted by Karnak View Post
Comedy Gold!

1. Carl tells us he's been "...suspicious for some time...". Look up disingenuous in the dictionary, and Carl's lead-in is the example.

2. He tells us ALPA and Moak cater to the RJ bunch, then doesn't read Moak's comments as advice to them: "...greater good for the entire profession.".

3. Local leaders and members chart/make priorities/decisions. National helps. Carl misses the verbs...

4. Posting his epiphany on TWO threads so that more can see it!

Brilliant!
Reposting for those with poor vision:

Moak: At the national and international level, our highest priority is to help pilot leaders at different carriers visualize favorable contract patterns across the industry and provide the resources to reach a contract that ensures the greater good for the entire profession.

Carl
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:23 PM
  #4378  
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Perfect! Highlight the part you choose...missing the point the entire answer.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:30 PM
  #4379  
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Yo, Carl! This bein' a DPA thread and all...

How's that "We'll join CAPA!" claim working out? Any chance you could troll the DPA website, copy the claim about joining CAPA, post it with your cool highlighted text, then attack it, too?

No?

Just ALPA and Moak?

Got it.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:48 PM
  #4380  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
Reposting for those with poor vision:

Moak: At the national and international level, our highest priority is to help pilot leaders at different carriers visualize favorable contract patterns across the industry and provide the resources to reach a contract that ensures the greater good for the entire profession.

Carl
Carl, how about the lead in for some context. Let me post it for you since your vision may not be so good.


"Local pilot leaders chart the course of negotiations and - through consensus of their members - make the decisions on priorities."

Captain Lee Moak, ALPA President
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