A constructive, factual post as usual.

 

Bar,

You and slowplay need to coordinate your talking points. Slow said that 1996-2000 was our most profitable time in history and set the stage for C2K. You say it was all a big setup and that DAL was going to file BK anyway. Seems to me these are incompatible.

Why did they agree to a contract at all? They could've just dragged their feet for years and years, just like they always do (unless of course we're willing to settle for table scraps)?

I don't have any way of discounting that what you said might be true. Likewise, you can't prove it did. I don't trust management then or now. They constantly talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Oh, and our "national union" got us in the mess we're in now. I'll take my chances with an independent union that represents DELTA pilots and DELTA pilots only.

 

You left out accurate.

 

Nevermind.....

 

Well then you badly misunderstood what I was saying. I was absolutely discussing buying power. Ignoring inflation is one of the biggest financial mistakes a person can make.

 

The following post addresses that about as well as anything I've seen. No point in taking a lot of time to type up a response when I can just copy/paste this: (very well done, index!)

BTW, that last paragraph is precisely the reason why I gave up on DALPA several years ago and believe our only hope is to replace them. DALPA has shown conclusively that they will not deviate from that mentality.

 

Index,

I'm not on anyone's talking points. Slowplay and I are coming at the facts from an entirely different perspective. Slowplay and I could probably reach consensus on those facts if we compared notes. Delta has a fascinating business history that has never been written. Some authors have hit the corners with "Debunking the Delta Myth" and "Airline Without a Pilot." It is true Delta had a commanding market presence and was using it to leverage huge profits in the late 1990's. But Delta was also leveraging a huge bull run in asset prices which they relied on to underfund enormous pension obligations. When the market fell apart in 2000 - 2002 along with a wave of retirements, the promises made appeared very unsustainable quickly. McKinsey had devised a way to shift these obligations to the PBGC and was executing this plan at United. Under Ron Allen, McKinsey consultants began playing a central role in Delta's strategic governance.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tirement/view/

(the whole show it worth a watch, or jump to the Sections on United's Bankruptcy)

Richard Anderson's occasional references to very deep Delta history bring back memories of clear voiced honorable men who were aviation pioneers, incredible leaders and who would sit in the back row of the Presbyterian Church when on reserve. My sources on the topic had either moved on to run other airlines, or retired as Country Gentlemen, around the time Ron Allen. But they remained part of the "Delta family" with an intense interest in what was going on. They unanimously thought Delta would enter bankruptcy in mid 2005 and their prognostications were accurate within 6 months.

Another corresponding set of data points were coming a group of Comair pilots. Independently from any other sources, they were running the numbers and coming to the same conclusions as the group of retired Delta managers.

Of course this information would have been at complete counter purpose to the Delta pilots in the negotiation of Contract 2000. Slowplay's interest was, and is, to maximize the results for the Delta pilots.

The United Contract was much the result of ephemeral profitability and "choking the golden goose until it gave up it's last egg." After bankruptcy the unions which have survived are much more thoughtful about asphyxiating their poultry.

I get that some here are wanting "Mad Dog" Dubinski style negotiations. However, it seems unlikely that style is going to be any better at gaining us sustainable results now than it was then. We have learned and improved our game.

 

Just about as constructive as this one...
and this one....
I think I'm going to quit even lurking on this thread. SOS day after day.

Not targeting Figmo or Johnso...this is just where I was when I got caught up and fed up.

 

See now you get it!! SOS day after day.... it is precisely why I am counting the days to a vote... let's move on already! ExAF I agree with you, just sayin!!

 

Even your fact is very debatable slow. Correct that they were in better shape 1996 -2000, not by much though.

However, when you take the economy into context, it can be argued they are doing much better now.

Delta left BK protection in April of 2007. The Great Recession began with the housing bubble bursting at the same time of their exit. The bottom of the Great Recession was in 2009 and the recovery since has been weak with erratic job growth.

Several weeks ago, Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary stated that the U.S. is in a "secular stagnation" or a persistent state in which a depressed economy is the norm with episodes of full employment scarce.

Delta, during this difficult economic environment, has posted increasingly better numbers ever since their exit. Presently, their performance is nearing record levels again.

Most financial analysts would agree that performance like Delta has posted as of late is more remarkable than that posted from 96-00, which coincided with The Dot Com bubble. The historic speculative bubble flushed cash into the economy and made for an exciting and easy revenue environment for airlines at the time, read easy $$$.

Through the good stewardship of Richard Anderson, the unbundling of fees, and the pilots massive bankruptcy concessions in the form of significant work rule changes, pay, and voluntary termination of their pensions, Delta has excelled.

It is now time to finally close the gap on restoring our compensation levels, unless you believe Ed Bastian is correct, when he states to Wall Street and the public that, "pilot compensation has been permanently reset." Six years since emergence from BK and we are still not close.

In hindsight, our chance to significantly improve our compensation floundered when we were rushed by management and DALPA to sign the 4-8-3-3 contract.

We can not afford to make the same error the next time around. Delta is financially solid despite the economy and the next negotiation is critical. That is why this representational decision is imperative. The victor will be the one who understands this and capitalizes by communicating this to the membership.

Currently, with Moaks disciples and their practice of proactive engagement, it is difficult to determine whether DALPA has our interests or managements at heart. Another topic but very debatable when you follow the money.

All that being said, sadly I'm beginning to think that DALPA subscribes to Ed's beliefs.