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Old 12-03-2013 | 03:25 PM
  #8781  
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My vote is for Timmy's kids. LOL
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Old 12-03-2013 | 03:25 PM
  #8782  
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Originally Posted by Dorfman
Will DPA let the scabs on our list in? Will you be silent about this?
DPA isn't silent about it. It's on the website's FAQ's. DPA will have a "clean slate" policy regarding scabs. Unfortunately, there's nothing to be done legally about them now. DPA would not have a legal leg to stand on if they tried to block scabs from being members...once ALPA has allowed them to be members at Delta.

Carl
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Old 12-03-2013 | 04:50 PM
  #8783  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler



If you knew anything about airline history, you'd know that was the only technique our management paid attention to. Also, it very likely set the stage for United's 2000 contract that raised the bar in a huge way - which allowed you to pattern above United by...a dollar. But don't let facts get in the way Gomer.

Carl
I am pretty sure that the rates obtained by DALPA through 3B6 led directly to the advances in UAL's contract...and as far the "only technique your management paid attention to", that may well be, but my point was that it didn't get you very much, did it?.....But by all means, lets not let facts obfuscate a good narrative.
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Old 12-03-2013 | 05:19 PM
  #8784  
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Originally Posted by Gomerglideslope
I am pretty sure that the rates obtained by DALPA through 3B6 led directly to the advances in UAL's contract...
I'm glad you're pretty sure, but you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Gomerglideslope
and as far the "only technique your management paid attention to", that may well be, but my point was that it didn't get you very much, did it?
Incorrect. You don't even know what was in our contract. You believe what mother Delta tells you Gomer. Delta's the best in every way, everyone else is second best... You'll never believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by Gomerglideslope
.....But by all means, lets not let facts obfuscate a good narrative.
The minute you actually show facts, that'll be great.

Carl
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Old 12-03-2013 | 06:41 PM
  #8785  
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
I can't speak to their motivation. I can say I felt deceived by their misrepresentation and lack of the "whole story" on a range of contract provisions.

I'm with Carl. Let's see the openers (theirs and ours).
If you can't deliver evidence, then you don't deserve to be taken seriously.

If you want to see the openers, then run for election this Spring. Do you want negotiators who act like businessmen, or ones who engage in populistic stunts that squander trust at the table? You can get up on your hind legs all you want, but that won't change the simple fact that acting like a horse's ass in negotiations has a way of extending the time needed to get to a TA.

Scabs, hackers, failed strategies, disappearing countdown clocks, cherry picked tax forms, scare tactics over Brady v. ALPA. How is it that these con artists earn your trust so easily? Your paranoia should be directed at the unelected, self-appointed snake oil merchants at the DPA who have abused your faith.
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Old 12-03-2013 | 07:04 PM
  #8786  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
DPA isn't silent about it. It's on the website's FAQ's. DPA will have a "clean slate" policy regarding scabs. Unfortunately, there's nothing to be done legally about them now. DPA would not have a legal leg to stand on if they tried to block scabs from being members...once ALPA has allowed them to be members at Delta.

Carl
How worrisome that scabs display such fondness for the DPA. They even write letters to express their jubilant appreciation, and the DPA sees fit to circulate those letters as recruitment fodder.

I wouldn't **** in a scab's ear if his brains were on fire.
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Old 12-03-2013 | 07:16 PM
  #8787  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Oh I should have known you'd use any excuse to not answer the question. So I'll rephrase:

There's one way to clear this up johnso. Call the three negotiators and ask them to release our opening position and the company's opening position. Easy. Or would that be like showing your hand in poker?

Carl

All we need is DALPAs opener.

We know what the company's was. It was passed along during the sales campaign.

0. Zero. Nothing.

So, assuming they met in he middle, but not likely the case, that puts DALPAs opener around 25-32% taking into account the profit sharing give back and work rule changes that be fit the company.
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Old 12-03-2013 | 07:16 PM
  #8788  
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Originally Posted by Starcheck102
If you can't deliver evidence, then you don't deserve to be taken seriously.
Translation: you can't be taken seriously if you don't support ALPA without question.

Originally Posted by Starcheck102
If you want to see the openers, then run for election this Spring.
Try to keep up ace. We want to see the last openers, you know, the ones for C2012.

Originally Posted by Starcheck102
Do you want negotiators who act like businessmen, or ones who engage in populistic stunts that squander trust at the table?
Sharing both sides' opening position with the membership is not a populist stunt. We did that routinely at NWA. I know it's a scary thought for you to have anyone question leadership, but it'll be OK. You'll see.

Originally Posted by Starcheck102
You can get up on your hind legs all you want, but that won't change the simple fact that acting like a horse's ass in negotiations has a way of extending the time needed to get to a TA.
And you can go off on a hysterical and emotional tirade all you want, but rolling over for management in negotiations will only get you COLA pay raises funded by concessions.

Originally Posted by Starcheck102
Scabs, hackers, failed strategies, disappearing countdown clocks, cherry picked tax forms, scare tactics over Brady v. ALPA. How is it that these con artists earn your trust so easily? Your paranoia should be directed at the unelected, self-appointed snake oil merchants at the DPA who have abused your faith.
Welcoming scabs back to ALPA, hacking opponents websites, hidden strategies, disappearing LEC resolutions, LM-2's showing millions in income to ALPA royalty, and committing the act of DFR that earned ALPA the negative jury verdict. How is it this gang of utter incompetents still earns your trust? Your anger and rage should be directed at ALPA who's gotten us into this quagmire of self-serving greed and legal jeopardy.

Carl
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Old 12-03-2013 | 07:20 PM
  #8789  
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Originally Posted by Starcheck102
How worrisome that scabs display such fondness for the DPA. They even write letters to express their jubilant appreciation, and the DPA sees fit to circulate those letters as recruitment fodder.
More selective, partisan and totally fake outrage. How worrisome to you is it that ALPA welcomed back scabs from United and Continental?

Originally Posted by Starcheck102
I wouldn't **** in a scab's ear if his brains were on fire.
You'd do whatever ALPA told you to do.

Carl
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Old 12-04-2013 | 01:28 AM
  #8790  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
DPA isn't silent about it. It's on the website's FAQ's. DPA will have a "clean slate" policy regarding scabs. Unfortunately, there's nothing to be done legally about them now. DPA would not have a legal leg to stand on if they tried to block scabs from being members...once ALPA has allowed them to be members at Delta.

Carl
What makes you think that ALPA has allowed this EAL scab who wrote a DPA testimonial to be a member? He wasn't on the CAL seniority list when they rejoined ALPA. Those were the only ones who got a clean slate (which I find repugnant). It had no effect, to my knowledge, on the membership opportunities for scabs at other properties at the time like United, NWA, Delta, etc. Am I wrong on that? My friends at United said their scabs remained non-members after CAL came back to ALPA.

Last edited by Hillbilly; 12-04-2013 at 01:40 AM.
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