Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873331)

We will undoubtedly be having this debate between ALPA and DPA over the next few months, but before you blindly vote make sure you are educated on what each choice means.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 873434)

It is no such thing. It is Major's Assured Destruction. As long as there are pilots willing to fly for starvation wages, no flying is safe. The only destruction will be regionals performing all majors flying, and major pilots deciding whether they want to fly for the only folks doing any flying...the regionals. And the best part will be, the formerly major pilots who decide to do this will do so at the bottom of the list. Still think it's Mutually Assured Destruction?



The cliches' keep on coming from you today...don't they.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 873438)

For you to even infer that people here would "blindly vote" is as ignorant as it is insulting. This is a very educated pilot group. If you desire any credibility at all, you'll re-phrase that.

Carl

Originally Posted by Superdad (Post 873356)

One of the main purposes of ALPA is pattern bargaining, yet they almost never engage in this practice. The recent Spirit Airlines contract is a perfect example of this. Sure the Spirit pilots wanted to keep their work rules and take lower pay. The result is some decent work rules and crappy payrates. How does that help pilots at other carriers, who fly similar aircraft on similar routes, bring their rates up?

My point is that ALPA will sign whatever $hitty contract your pilots agree to regardless of the effect on other properties. That is not pattern bargaining. Taking it one step further, ALPA will attempt to strong arm your negotiators and MEC in to a bad TA, and then try to get you to sell it to your pilots! I have seen it first hand as a negotiator and MEC rep.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 873420)

The even uglier truth is that none of it would have happened had regional pilots not accepted those jobs at starvation wages. Jobs that have done nothing but undercut their aspiration to join a major.

Carl

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 873364)

They are gonna say whatever crapola they need to say to sway the voters.. which ain't US... We have no say in who gets elected. National is out of touch.. and out of control. It is truly depressing to watch the "leadership" get all the perks and a retirement that makes even some CEOs envious yet here we are with 1990 payrates...

Still waiting for Mr. Prater to get off his butt and show up at an LEC meeting..... ANY LEC meeting at the world's largest airline with his agenda as to how he is going to "take back this profession"

Originally Posted by hoserpilot (Post 873372)

How quickly can a new independent union get on the property? Can we really collect enough money to support our 2012 negotiations? Will we have enough money for a strike fund? The company will REALLY test the new union and try to break it. Can we really be prepared for such a huge fight in just a couple years? I'm serious about these questions because I don't know the answers.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873440)

OK Carl, let me put it this way.

Before you vote on anger and emotion. Vote the guy out that you have an issue with.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873414)

T-

Lets use the two that you have listed. Aeromed, and Legal. I know the Aeromed is worth it weight in gold and anyone that has ever used them or had their careers saved by this group of people will swear by them. For DAL to retain a service like that, that is all about us pilots and our best interest will not be cheap. As for the attorney's, some are good some are not. I have meet a few of our attorneys that spend their entire lives devoted to things like defending "Chain of Custody" of our void samples. Do you really think that if we paid for that attorney and all of the others ones we employ that 1.95% of your paycheck would cover it? Doubt it, plus it would end up being some farmed out service provider that does not give the same level you now enjoy.
I have worked with other pilots that are non-alpa and trust me you do not know what you have.

Gonna go out on a limb. Tentatively. I'll have a definite answer in 24hrs. SWAPa, and some of the others at CAPA use ALPA aeromedical. They contract out their services. ( Side note: ALPA aeromedical is just a tad over rated any way. Dr. Tom Faulkner is THE MAN though. Got an issue, Google him, or just ask your base CP.)

As I see it the MCF is there is we need it. It is the threat of it that is the biggest deterrent. Have we gone on strike? If we do do you think that DPA can support us long term? I highly doubt it. That MCF will be there if we need it.

Ever consider that this is also a liability that prevents National from doing "hard" or "right" thing at times. Don't you think that the ATA or any of their member airlines would love to get their hands on that via a judgement?




So answer your question, what are the benefit that ALPA has or a new relatively unknown association?
1) Name recognition: The power base knows the name and the number that go with it

Home | Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations



3) Numbers. There is always a fear in the fact that ALPA represents over 55K pilots.

see above


4) Legal Support for you the line pilot when you get in trouble. Get in trouble and you will swear by them.

Really? If you were a good lawyer, do you choose a career with ALPA? I don't think they are any match for the companies law firm. BK proved that.

5) Aeromed; Again worth its weight in gold. Have a heart attack and do not have the influence that ALPA has at the FAA and you may be SOL with getting an SI. Trust me this is very important to all of us no just the old farts :D

see above

6) MCF: Lots of money. It sill there is one needs it. There are commitments to the MCF, but to date there is still plenty in there if we need it.

They earn a lot of short term interest on that :)

7) The rest of the ALPA pilots would more than likely support us with a assessment if it ever came to it, with DPA you will have to asses yourself. Never been tested here, but ask the NWA brethren about this.

Again, really? Lets say that UAL/CAL leaves as well. Would the remaining group have the $$$ power or will power to do that?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 873438)

For you to even infer that people here would "blindly vote" is as ignorant as it is insulting. This is a very educated pilot group. If you desire any credibility at all, you'll re-phrase that.

Carl