Zapata

My only question is; Is what you said considered sugarcoating or a snow-job?

Actually, both scenarios are equally insidious. Furthermore, you treated each situation as if they were separate entities when, if fact, they are very much in bed with each other. i.e. Bankers and their ilk contribute to government's abuse of power as the favors are returned.

Grumble

+1

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security, will never have either."
~Benjamin Franklin


First off, you can't put "TSA" and "Intelligence" in the same sentence. It's like dividing by zero, you're going to make the earth implode.

You're right, no one HAS to fly. HOWEVER, an airline ticket bought by an individual is a private contract between you and that airline. The Feds have inserted themselves between the two of you. If I buy a ticket on Greyhound, Amtrack, or any other public transportation they aren't there.... yet. Where do freedoms end and the police state begin? I think everyone here pretty much agrees it's a security "show." They're not preventing anything, and at least the airport manager in Samford FL has seen the light and is booting the TSA in favor of private security. Seriously look at your local TSA agent, they're rent a cops. I love to see statistics on the average education level of these "experts."

There are no absolutes, of someone wants to get a weapon or bomb on a plane it's GOING to happen. If you want to completely secure an airplane, either make everyone ride naked with no baggage or stop flying airplanes completely.

paladin

Social metaphysics does not make a logical argument. In fact this kind of thinking can lead to despotism and misery.

402DRVR

Its kinda funny that the left hated "warrantless wiretaps a few years ago and the right was all about them for national security reasons. Now only a few years later, the Left is all about these screenings and the unmitigated growth of burgeoning government beaurocracy and its the right that is screaming out.

Now because some folks from across the world have a problem with us we have to submit to invasive screening, or gropings from the TSA. I have to see a special sign at the drive thru telling me the grease dripping Big Mac is bad for me, and I can't say Merry Christmas in public. Where is the line?

A poster a few pages ago expressed that he did not serve his country bravely just to see it ruined with stupidity and squabbling. While I was never in a combat zone, and rarely at any real risk, I too served because this country was worth it as so many of us did. The road we're going down I'm starting to wonder if we'll be able to say that in a few years.

chuck416

1. There is credible intel that meth and cocaine is being sold in your children's high school. How would you feel about letting the fed's take bolt cutters to every locker on the campus where your children attend, and pilfer through their belongings at their every whim. Dont' tell me this is not an insidious plague on our society. Death from drug abuse is orders of magnitude more deadly than terrorism in THIS country, and in our communities.

2.When you go to YOUR Dr. it is at YOUR convenience, the Dr. of YOUR choice (usually), whom YOU use, to ascertain YOUR status of health. And you consent to whatever examination he, as a health professional, deems necessary, and is performed according to reasonable and professional decorum. Hardly what happens at the TSA checkpoints. It takes only a cursory search of the internet to find many over-the-top stories that are being inflicted on people every day. Nearly every single one who want only to get where they're headed, and completely undeserving of what they are being subjected to.

3.The police may ONLY test your B.A.C. upon crossing the threshold of "reasonable suspicion", and are almost always being filmed themselves. If R/S is not met, they themselves are not immune to the full force of law, guaranteed under our Constitution.

4."Forced to buy an airline ticket, visit a doctor, drive a car..." Exactly WHERE do you propose to draw the line of "you're not forced to go past...."? The end of your driveway? Because that is most assuredly where this line of thought is taking us. Our Constitution was written to protect us from the tyranny of this animal commonly referred to as "government". It is our ideas that are intended to be protected at all costs. The government's roll is to ensure that that happens. Not infringe upon those rights in some HOPE that they may secure our persons.

Art. IV. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Re-Read the first portion of this Amendment, up to "shall not be violated..." This is NOT that hard folks. Ben Franklin was right. "Those who would give up their rights of privacy, for the hope of security, deserve neither".

Respectfully,
Chuck

chuck416

(taken out of context)

402DRVR-
I appreciate, sincerely, the fact that you have sworn to "...protect the Constitution, from all enemies, foreign AND domestic..." I share your oath (3X), and perhaps that's why I am so passionate about this.
Regards,
Chuck

gloopy

Haha! Yeah, got me peged there!

gloopy

You can't seriously be defending the neo-con or soft-socialist leftist liberty eroding power grabs. If this is the first thing that makes sense he's said, what do you disagree with and why?

gloopy

Something which RP has pointed out time and time again (and been heckled by the pro-status quo sheep all along).

satchip

Did you know that TSA is prohibited from accessing passenger lists that would allow them to narrow the search to the most likely subjects rather than shotgun every passenger? Anybody remember "the Wall" set up by Clinton Justice Dept. member Jamie Gorelick?

As for the poster who made the comparison to warrantless wiretaps, there is a huge difference. The wiretaps were targeted to known enemy phone numbers overseas that were connecting to US numbers. TSA subjects every passenger to intrusive warrantless searches.

I used to disagree with Ron Paul, mostly for his foreign policy views. I am moving closer to his point of view every day.